Do any d1 athletes run xc and also run the lower middle distance events in track? And is itgood or bad for your track times?
Do any d1 athletes run xc and also run the lower middle distance events in track? And is itgood or bad for your track times?
1. Yes
2. Good
Mark Belger, 10 gold watches at Penn relays, 1:45+ 800m and 4th at US trials '76 "ran" XC at Nova. Mark's passion and and talent lay on the track but he used fall xc as indoor preparation.
You are asking three different questions. For a person focusing on either the 800 or the 1500 XC is a good thing (see Andrew Wheating) for those type runners a good coach may keep their mileage a little lower than the true distance runners and have them do a little more speed/turnover type work even in the fall. For a 400m runner I would say it depends. If the athlete isn't likely to be motivated enough to be working out consistently in the fall then XC is way preferable to doing nothing. However, if that 400m runner is going to do workouts on his own it is probably better for them to focus on long for them intervals and fartlek type work rather than the bigger mileage they would be doing during XC.
400- no
800- somewhat
1500- usually
Andrews, Loxsom and Jock were nowhere to be seen last year in cross, but Centro and Ulrey did quite well.
400-1500 coach wrote:
400- no
800- somewhat
1500- usually
I think most would say you got that completely backward.
Thanks for the catch. The thread is titled weird- usually one would ask if it helps.
Oh no you dint wrote:
400-1500 coach wrote:400- no
800- somewhat
1500- usually
I think most would say you got that completely backward.
Ed Moses ran XC
For 800 and 1500 runners it's good endurance work, especially for those 1500 runners who can actually win XC races. For others it can be a bit demoralizing trying so hard and finishing a long way down the field.
Not bad for 800m runners. Andrews, national champion, is running this year (didn't run last year cuz of injury).
There was a well known British coach who criticized our top 1500 guy for running XC. He said it used different energy systems, which is mostly BS. That's like saying middle distance runners should do endurance training.
For those programs that don't incorporate any short reps or plys into their workouts (and there are some out there). then xc should be a no no for the 400m guy.
Nick Symmonds ran varsity xc at Div. III Willamette (good middle distance & distance program) and never lost an 800m race during his collegiate career.
He could have done synchronized swimming instead and gotten the same result.
Reg wrote:
Nick Symmonds ran varsity xc at Div. III Willamette (good middle distance & distance program) and never lost an 800m race during his collegiate career.
400-1500 coach wrote:
He could have done synchronized swimming instead and gotten the same result.
Reg wrote:Nick Symmonds ran varsity xc at Div. III Willamette (good middle distance & distance program) and never lost an 800m race during his collegiate career.
Faulty logic. The question is "is it bad." Based on the evidence of what actually happened, we conclude that no, it is not bad.
You are making a claim that XC is not relevant for his 800m success based on something that never happened.
To argue that XC is (or at least was) bad for Nick, you'd have to argue that he would have been (or would be now) faster at 800m had he not ran XC. That may be true but currently there is no evidence to support that analysis.
I would agree with others that running xc would be stupid for any 400m runner, and it probably wouldn't be good for 400/800 types, but it would be okay for 800m specialists and good for 800/1500 and 1500m+ runners. There have been many 1500m guys who ran well in cross. It's a good way to get in some base training.
rounder wrote:
400-1500 coach wrote:He could have done synchronized swimming instead and gotten the same result.
Faulty logic. The question is "is it bad." Based on the evidence of what actually happened, we conclude that no, it is not bad.
You are making a claim that XC is not relevant for his 800m success based on something that never happened.
To argue that XC is (or at least was) bad for Nick, you'd have to argue that he would have been (or would be now) faster at 800m had he not ran XC. That may be true but currently there is no evidence to support that analysis.
There is no clear answer to this question becasue there have been a lot of 800/1500 types who were very good XC runners as well; however, there have been a lot of good 800/1500 types who have never run XC. I would say running XC for 800/1500 types it is a good thing, but you need to moniter how they are handling it. Some MD athletes just aren't built for it or have the base for distance running. If they are degressing as the season progresses, I would hold them out of championship and 10K races.
In terms of 400/800 types, if you have no Fall training program for them, I would have them run XC just to stay in shape. I would have them skip the long runs and subsitute with hill repeats and skip the races. At the NCAA D1 or 2 level, it very unlikely they are going to score points anyway. With that said, I have known some H.S. and small college long sprinters who could best most of the guys on the XC team running about 1/4 the milege. In fact, I have seen H.S. 100m sprinters who were decent H.S. XC runners. About 1/3rd of your top female sprinters ran XC in H.S.; you would be surprised at how many great female sprinters ran XC. Btw, I am not talking about running for NXN or 50mpw type teams.
I was a 400/800 type in H.S. and really enjoyed XC; I wasn't that great at it, but I was a top 5 guy on my team my junior and senior year. Btw, we did not have an exceptional XC program. I also plyaed football and trainind for XC only once or twice a week. We actually had a few short sprinters on the XC team as well. I was luckly in that our football coach was also the track coach and I think he liked track more than football.
Back in high school I remember a 400m guy who ran XC. He ran something like mid 16 minutes for 3 miles. Not bad. He ran 48.60 sec for 400m as a junior (my senior year). I checked the year after I graduated and he won the CCS 400m title in 48.62 sec. Hr ran a PR of 48.20 that season as well. I wonder if he ever tried the 800m in college? :-)
in line with d-3, current senior, Marcus Fortugno 46.55 for 400m (http://www.tfrrs.org/athletes/2275024.html) was his XC team's number 6, and ran 28:14 at their west region meet, beating out other teams top 5 scorers:
http://www.d3xc.com/results/archives/2010%20NCAA%20West%20Region%20Championships.htm
i think his 8k PR is in the mid to low 27's.
it's a pretty cool feat to be nationally ranked (2nd overall in D3) in the sprints and be on your team's regionally competitive XC team, displacing other team's runners. anyone else currently in the NCAA doing this?
An athlete wrote:
Do any d1 athletes run xc and also run the lower middle distance events in track? And is it good or bad for your track times?
It doesn't matter what DI, II, or III does or what Rudisha/El Guerrouj are doing. What matters is your individual athletic profile and current performance level.
Do you run the 400, 800, or 1500? If so to what specificity?
400
400/800
800/1500
Everyone has Type I & II fibers. The question for you is are you more Type IIa or IIb?
The next question is just how much might XC training change the percentage of fibers that you currently have?
That's not a question anyone on here can answer.
#1 - we don't know the volume you will be doing
#2 - we don't know your athletic profile
#3 - there has not been a completely valid study done that can be applied to the general population to answer your question/s
If you are looking at it from a scientific/training perspective and not in comparison to what "other D1" athletes do, your best bet is to sit down with your coach and talk about what category runner you fall under. Then, I would address what your strengths and weaknesses are. If you do decide with your coach that XC might help you (i.e. you are a 800/1500 runner who is more competitive at the 1500) then you could very well benefit from the XC training for your off season. However no matter what category you fall under I think it's best you would still modify your training (specifically volume) compared to the other XC runners.
Only ran the 400 twice senior year, Pr of 48.2x, mostly ran 800 and relays. 4:17.xx was my 1600 time, again ran that 2-3 times senior year.