U.S.A. Intentionally Kills Citizen??

| wrote:

The New UncleB wrote:

Further, there has not been one American killed in the USA from an Al Qaeda planned attack since 911.

Not due to a lack of effort, though.

I am unaware of any effort whatsoever. The only "homegrown terrorist" plots that the FBI has exposed and stopped have been those of their own making -- every single one of them with the possible exception of the comedy acts- the shoe and underwear bombers.

I absoluely believe it and I have never been near any of those places. It's not about them or how wretched or evil they may or may not be. It's about us and abandoning the values and principles that supposedly make us better than people who decide it's ok to kill someone just because it makes a point or serves our own ends. I am truly appalled by what we've become.

How much time have you spent in any of those countries and what happened there to think it's ok to kill people there indiscriminantly?

M107A1 -send it wrote:

photofinish wrote:

Here is your academic answer, you nitwit:

"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

Note the foreign AND DOMESTIC part.

IMO this justifies the button pushers action, or absolves him from blame for following an order and does not reflect the legality of the order to do so.

I'm not against the elimination action just pointing out this cite of the soldiers oath give no justification for the order given to send it.

OK, but again, the Constitution has this section that says:

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation".

Do you believe that Americans can just selectively choose when to follow the Constitution and when to just ignore it for expediency's sake?

The New UncleB wrote:

"I am unaware..."

Exactly. Everything you said after that is inconsequential.

It was first reported in January of last year that the Obama administration had compiled a hit list of American citizens whom the President had ordered assassinated without any due process, and one of those Americans was Anwar al-Awlaki. No effort was made to indict him for any crimes (despite a report last October that the Obama administration was “considering” indicting him). Despite substantial doubt among Yemen experts about whether he even had any operational role in Al Qaeda, no evidence (as opposed to unverified government accusations) was presented of his guilt. When Awlaki’s father sought a court order barring Obama from killing his son, the DOJ argued, among other things, that such decisions were “state secrets” and thus beyond the scrutiny of the courts. He was simply ordered killed by the President: his judge, jury and executioner. When Awlaki’s inclusion on President Obama’s hit list was confirmed, The New York Times noted that “it is extremely rare, if not unprecedented, for an American to be approved for targeted killing.”

After several unsuccessful efforts to assassinate its own citizen, the U.S. succeeded today (and it was the U.S.). It almost certainly was able to find and kill Awlaki with the help of its long-time close friend President Saleh, who took a little time off from murdering his own citizens to help the U.S. murder its. The U.S. thus transformed someone who was, at best, a marginal figure into a martyr, and again showed its true face to the world. The government and media search for The Next bin Laden has undoubtedly already commenced.

What’s most striking about this is not that the U.S. Government has seized and exercised exactly the power the Fifth Amendment was designed to bar (“No person shall be deprived of life without due process of law”), and did so in a way that almost certainly violates core First Amendment protections (questions that will now never be decided in a court of law). What’s most amazing is that its citizens will not merely refrain from objecting, but will stand and cheer the U.S. Government’s new power to assassinate their fellow citizens, far from any battlefield, literally without a shred of due process from the U.S. Government. Many will celebrate the strong, decisive, Tough President’s ability to eradicate the life of Anwar al-Awlaki — including many who just so righteously condemned those Republican audience members as so terribly barbaric and crass for cheering Governor Perry’s execution of scores of serial murderers and rapists: criminals who were at least given a trial and appeals and the other trappings of due process before being killed.

From an authoritarian perspective, that’s the genius of America’s political culture. It not only finds ways to obliterate the most basic individual liberties designed to safeguard citizens from consummate abuses of power (such as extinguishing the lives of citizens without due process). It actually gets its citizens to stand up and clap and even celebrate the destruction of those safeguards.

| wrote:

The New UncleB wrote:

"I am unaware..."

Exactly. Everything you said after that is inconsequential.

I was being modest. I am unaware of such plots because there have been none

The New UncleB wrote:

I was being modest. I am unaware of such plots because there have been none

It certainly didn't come across as modesty, but if we are grading on the curve (compared to the extraordinary anonymous trolling that typically occurs on these message boards) you probably earn a free pass. Suffice to say that simply because you aren't aware of them doesn't mean they don't exist.

O.J had a fair trial too

HRE wrote:

How much time have you spent in any of those countries and what happened there to think it's ok to kill people there indiscriminantly?

I've spent time in Jordan and Iraq working with members of their military. 95% of those in the Middle East want the same as you and I - to lead a normal life.

It's not OK to kill people indiscriminately, and I never said it was.

My relatives are from Jordan and Turkey. 100% of the people in Jordan, Turkey, Iran, Central Asia and Middle East want the U.S. to end the occupation of Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, etc.

I'm taking "indiscriminately" to mean killing done with no process other than the victim being targeted by someone else and with no legal process involved. Maybe there's a better word for it.