"We'd bet a large sum of money that Rupp and Farah don't run 17-20 miles every day at 5:45 pace. Some of the mileage has to be slower or they aren't running that much every day."
Weldon, please don't place that bet. This shouldn't even raise an eyebrow if you've been around enough runners.
yes i agree on malmo
My usual running pace is 5.45 to 6.15 and that is not hard for 3.51 and 14.08 5000 meters. For most of the time this is south of 150 heart rate for me and on a half marathon i could maintain 175 - 180 heart rate.
lets say 80% mhr is 5.50 per mile (and right now i am in about 14.40 shape) i can't of tend to think those super human machines can hold on to 5.20 per mile for a long time without surpassing 80% mhr.
And all in all i see 65% - 82% mhr as easy endurance running.
That is for me though
Isn't this how Nenow essentially trained? This shouldn't be a problem for a 12:53/26:4x guy.
Over and over and over again it has been shown that there are many different ways to train to have success in distance running; higher mileage or lower mileage, very easy days or quicker recovery runs, lots of intervals or lots of tempo runs, many long runs or no long runs, etc. etc.
Despite there being so much evidence of different training methods leading to success, people tend to believe that their way of training is the best way. If someone found themselves improving from increasing their mileage quite a bit, they think it must be the right thing for everyone, even though there are many examples of it not working for someone else. Weldon had some success by slowing his easy day pace down, sometimes as slow as 8 minute pace. That is great because it worked for him. I have known many other world and national class runners that trained very differently and it has worked for them. For the level that Rupp and Farah are at, doing the majority of their running at sub 6 minute pace seems very logical, just like it does for Chris Solinsky. The problem is that since these are three of the better runners currently, it ruins the theory of so many that you have to run really easy on your easy days to be successful. No you don't, or at least many successful runners don't. Since it ruins their theory, many people just refuse to believe it is true.
I wish a made a tally every time the brojos said something incredibly stupid and/or ignorant. It's baffling how two former runners who created a running website can know so little about running.
off the charts wrote:
I wish a made a tally every time the brojos said something incredibly stupid and/or ignorant. It's baffling how two former runners who created a running website can know so little about running.
And one of them is actually a D1 coach. And people wonder why Cornell's team is bad.
Is Cornell bad compared to other Ivies? I actually think they have faired quite well in track against other schools that can't give scholarships.
malmo, where did that quote come from? link?
off the charts wrote:
I wish a made a tally every time the brojos said something incredibly stupid and/or ignorant. It's baffling how two former runners who created a running website can know so little about running.
But one of them ran 28 min 10k after easing back the intensity of their distance runs. Surely, it wasn't because he busted his butt for years training hard and then made a adjustment to bring himself into balance. It must have been that last fine tuning that was the real reason.
Correct, Malmo, as usual.I rarely read the front page because I don't think the brojos and Kellog know much about coaching, so I'm not sure what comment you are responding to, but this does not sound like a coach pushing his athlete to run high mileage:
“I would say Farah’s greatest strength besides his talent is his ability to be relaxed. When he is given workouts to do he will go and execute it and not worry about it. There's a difference between having a belief and 99% and 100% believing what you're doing. I think the key is not to make any mistakes, that is where the coach comes in. I tell him ‘you have to take it easy today and back off’ and often with athletes when they have to make those decisions on their own they don't want to back off, they think its weakness. That's where Mo is great because in the space of eight months he's gotten to the point where if I tell him he's only doing 2/3rds of the workout Galen is doing he'll just do it.”
http://www.iaaf.org/competitions/dlm/news/newsid=60762.html
As I said on a different thread yesterday, you have all of this mileage-obsessed "genius" coaching from JK and Co. I see excuses about the results because of how tough of a school Cornell is (as if Stanford or Duke are easier). I And what international results do we see from this program? Nothing. Now you have Morgan Uceny going to the same school and apparently running 25 miles a week. She goes with Terrence Mahon and now apparently up to 50 miles a week but very likely harder training and she's the DL points leader. That's basically all you need to know.
Weldon simply isn't on the same planet as Salazar and Renato, an I don't know why anybody bothers to read what's on the front page.
Isn't this about the same as a 15:00 5k guy running 6:40s or an 18 minute 5k guy running 7:50's (accounting for proportionality).
Seems totally reasonable.
mcdillpickle calc has mo's easy runs at 5:18-5:48
http://www.letsrun.com/2011/week-0711.phpShoe Goo wrote:
malmo, where did that quote come from? link?
5) This may be the most important one: You can't really believe everything you read in print. It's hard to judge someone's training unless you have access to 100% of their training log, as people often only give out the highlights of their training in interviews.
We'd bet a large sum of money that Rupp and Farah don't run 17-20 miles every day at 5:45 pace. Some of the mileage has to be slower or they aren't running that much every day.
I'd make the bet no problem. That's 130+ miles a week with no recovery pace runs. What about workouts and warm ups and cool downs? They're not just going out for a 18 miler at 545 pace every f@ing day. That would be idiotic. What about workouts?
I think Salazar's brain probably got a little fried back in the day and now he just spouts off training info that may or may not be based in reality.
And I wish people would stop making the training pace - PRs correlations. You guys should know that that is not how it works. I'm sure you've met people a lot slower than you and a lot faster than you who train at the same pace. Personally, I train at a slower pace now that I'm faster because before I trained way too fast.
nail him from behind wrote:
I'd make the bet no problem. That's 130+ miles a week with no recovery pace runs. What about workouts and warm ups and cool downs? They're not just going out for a 18 miler at 545 pace every f@ing day. That would be idiotic. What about workouts?.
First of all, 5:45 pace is a recovery run for athletes at that level. Second of all, the quote says average pace, not every run is exactly 5:45 pace. Some people that don't have this kind of talent just can't understand how easy 5:45 pace can be for the top athletes.
Ikke wrote:
yes i agree on malmo
My usual running pace is 5.45 to 6.15 and that is not hard for 3.51 and 14.08 5000 meters. For most of the time this is south of 150 heart rate for me and on a half marathon i could maintain 175 - 180 heart rate.
lets say 80% mhr is 5.50 per mile (and right now i am in about 14.40 shape) i can't of tend to think those super human machines can hold on to 5.20 per mile for a long time without surpassing 80% mhr.
And all in all i see 65% - 82% mhr as easy endurance running.
That is for me though
Ikke, what kind of training do you do? You seem to have improved quite a bit.
Maximus wrote:
For the level that Rupp and Farah are at, doing the majority of their running at sub 6 minute pace seems very logical, just like it does for Chris Solinsky. The problem is that since these are three of the better runners currently, it ruins the theory of so many that you have to run really easy on your easy days to be successful.
In what kind of training approach or training method whatever training knowledge supports your opinion that Galen Rupp, Mo Farah or Chris Solinsky run at 6:00min pace seems logical ?
What you mean by easy or hard ? For example what´s easy and what´s hard, run 10miles at 6:00 or 10K/6 miles at 5:30 pace ?
Let me put another way. When we refer daily runs, what you want to mean by easy and hard is just slower (= easy) and faster (= harder) without neglet the distance of the run and mileage volume of that runs ?
Malmo
One question for you.
Take the example of one distance runner that does 2-3 mainstream intervals per week, and of course he does also daily runs, once or twice a day eventually.
Do you think that the pace of that daily runs is relevant the way different aerobic pace (faster or slower) did sensible and different contribute performance enhance ?
Or do you think that the contribute for the performance enhance isn´t quite different if he goes slower or a bit faster, as far as the runner goes aerobic ?
Thanks
coach d wrote:
“I would say Farah’s greatest strength besides his talent is his ability to be relaxed. When he is given workouts to do he will go and execute it and not worry about it. There's a difference between having a belief and 99% and 100% believing what you're doing. I think the key is not to make any mistakes, that is where the coach comes in. I tell him ‘you have to take it easy today and back off’ and often with athletes when they have to make those decisions on their own they don't want to back off, they think its weakness. That's where Mo is great because in the space of eight months he's gotten to the point where if I tell him he's only doing 2/3rds of the workout Galen is doing he'll just do it.”
That quote isn't saying that Mo does 2/3 of Galen's workouts; it says he doesn't question it if Salazar tells him to.
Brojos are right. Rupp and Farah do not run 17-20 miles everyday at 5:45 pace. They have easy days, races, rest days, track days, tempo runs, slow warm ups/downs, etc.