50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Allen1959,

Even “minutes fartleks” might be helpful, where you run 3:00 on 2:00 off. Time the speed changes focusing on how you feel versus being pressured by time/distance. Again, just some random thoughts.

Igy

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

I would say you may be putting too much pressure on yourself. Step away from racing or lower your expectations for a bit. Improvement in distance running is rarely linear.

Igy, thanks - could you expand on that last point? I did make a great leap forward about nine months into my "racing career," and looking back it's obvious a number of factors came together all at once to slash 2 minutes off my 5K time. Is that what you mean?

KCGeezer,

I meant that distance training is a building process requiring successive loading of various training components over time. Getting the components and variables in sync are tough enough and difficult to do consistently. Then you combine that with adult commitments and aging body that is more susceptible to various interruptions. Of course that is not a reason not to try, but just look at the struggles of some our Olympians (in some cases with the best programs money can buy). So, be realistic and don’t beat yourself up; evaluate and rejigger.

Igy

Rtype wrote:

RF reader: Hope you are not injured.

Thanks for the concern. I am not injured, just out of shape and under-trained. Sorry to learn about your calf strain, but you seem to be recovering well.

My week:

M:off.

T: 6 miles.

W: off.

R: 5k race. .

F: 6 miles.

SA: 6 miles.

SU: 8 miles.

I knew I was out of shape, but I didn't want to miss the Independence Day race, because I missed it last year due to a car breakdown. This is also about the only local 5k race that is competitive in recent years. I ended up running a 51 second PW on this course (24:04) with splits of 4:51-4:43-5:02-4:53-4:35. (The 3rd km was net uphill and the last km was net downhill.) I think I started the first 2km okay given the circumstances, but I am clearly lacking some endurance right now. I hardly passed any one after 3km, and ended up being outkicked by a teenage girl.

Believe it or not, this was still good enough to win my AG by more than three minutes. So it was not "competitive" within my own AG, but at least I got to race against some younger people. (I was 29th OA among about 200 finishers.) I beat every man older than me.... but a 57 yr old woman beat me by 2 minutes. (She was 2nd among all women.)

I am planning to race another 5k in early August. This one will be a flatter course, so my time should improve. After that, a club half in mid September.

I have one episode to share about "prize money." About a decade ago, I won $50 savings bond in a small 10k race. (A local bank was the sponsor.) The women's winner was a varsity college runner. She returned the prize money to the RD, as it would violate her NCAA eligibility. The RD put the savings bond to the pool of door prizes, and then pulled the name of our winner. I thought that was a very clever solution.

Never used to be money in England for road races. The Gum Tree 10k in Tupelo used (and may still) to pay money to the first six, the first three 40+, and the first 50+. One year I was fortunate enough to get first 50+, but also finish third in 40+ and they gave me a cheque for both, which might have been $350.

Got caught out with the reverse in a $$$ paying road mile in Alabama. I ran in the first heat and got third overall (it was fastest 50+ road mile run there at the time). Come prize money time I got $50 for third overall, and a guy who ran about 30 seconds slower in the second heat got $200 for first 40+

I guess you win some and loose some!

I did win the Southern Pacific Association AAU Marathon in 1973 and the association paid my way to the 1974 Boston Marathon. Best part I stopped on the way home to visit my future wife when she attended Tulsa University. By far the best thing in my life....

You can win enough at USATF masters championships to pay for your trip, and then some if you live close by and travel expenses are low, but it usually takes a combo of winning your age, getting a high placing in overall age grading, and maybe some team money. Occasionally I'll see some money as a grand masters, but usually it's up against the masters and I would have to be real lucky to get a top 3 masters and get a $25-$50 gift certificate.

They do test at the championships (but just a few athletes each time if at all). It would be hard to cheat by course cutting because the races are shorter and you know who is ahead of you and those behind you know where you are. Would be next to impossible to cut the course unless it was at a huge mass start marathon or half. Same thing with bib mules, not going to happen at a championship race but yes at big races it can happen.

A couple years ago I saw the state end of year rankings and noticed that someone I'd never heard of ran an outstanding time, would have broken the age group record by a minute, one held by one of the best USA masters ever. So I double checked and saw the guy was 22 or 23 minute 5K runner. Looked at start line photos an someone else was carrying that number--with a little sleuthing found out it was the guy's son, a college runner. So I reported it with the photos and they removed him from the results. Maybe he just borrowed dad's bib to save some money and to get in a hard race effort that day. I did not contact the magazine that published the end of year rankings, figuring so what, I got a 3rd ranking instead of 2nd for the year. But I definitely didn't want to ever see that illegitimate time taking my friend's name off the record book!

Also had a possible course cutter at a trail race a few years ago, cost me a pair of shoes as prize. Contacted the RD but they said they believed the course cutter--who based on previous results was normally a back of the packer. Maybe he just wanted to do the short race and happened to have finished at a world class time for the longer race (equivalent to a 31-32 10K at age 55+). Maybe just a misunderstanding, wasn't a big race, and I didn't pursue that one any further.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

I did win the Southern Pacific Association AAU Marathon in 1973 and the association paid my way to the 1974 Boston Marathon. Best part I stopped on the way home to visit my future wife when she attended Tulsa University. By far the best thing in my life....

Nice story to hear...was your future wife also a runner?

Staying on the cheating theme, this happened at my 4th of July 5-miler last week. As I mentioned in my post, I ran 39:53 and was surprised to see in the posted results that my age group (F60-69), as well as the overall female masters, was supposedly won by someone I'd never heard of, in 36:09. Seemed unlikely. She was announced as the winner at the award ceremony but did not show up. I Googled her (not a common name) and the only hits I got were for a staff person at my own university. So I sent her an e-mail congratulating her on an excellent race. As I expected, she replied that she had participated in the 2-mile event, not the 5-mile. Mystery solved.

The rightful overall masters winner was a 42-year-old who finished 4 seconds ahead of me only because I stopped her from going off course. She passed me about 200 yards before the finish, right where the course turns left onto a side street. She was a stride or two ahead of me when she failed to make the turn--no course monitors, but large chalked arrows in the road. I yelled "wrong way--left!" as she went by, she asked "are you sure?", and I answered "yes--arrows!" She looked back, saw the big arrow in the road, and hustled to get turned around and headed back in the right direction. She was still able to catch up and outkick me to the finish. Well, I didn't know at the time she passed me that I was leading the masters, nor did I know that she was my competition (she didn't look 40+). Hopefully the race director will contact her to pick up her nice plaque.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

I did win the Southern Pacific Association AAU Marathon in 1973 and the association paid my way to the 1974 Boston Marathon. Best part I stopped on the way home to visit my future wife when she attended Tulsa University. By far the best thing in my life....

I hope you claimed that on your taxes. ?

amkelley wrote:

The rightful overall masters winner was a 42-year-old who finished 4 seconds ahead of me only because I stopped her from going off course.

Your story reminds me of an off-course experience me and a buddy had several years ago.

We missed a corner (no Marshall, of course), overshot the finishing turn, got chased by dogs, and finally, after about an extra half mile made it back to the finish line.

Except, something was not right. We first noticed everyone had their backs turned to us, and no one was cheering for us or even seemed to notice our valiant struggles. And they were all on the wrong side of the finish line. Then we noticed the finish chute was set up all wrong.

Finally, it dawned on us that we were approaching the finish line from the wrong side!

After we told our story we did receive “sympathy” medals.

Just An Old Fitness Runner wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

I did win the Southern Pacific Association AAU Marathon in 1973 and the association paid my way to the 1974 Boston Marathon. Best part I stopped on the way home to visit my future wife when she attended Tulsa University. By far the best thing in my life....

Nice story to hear...was your future wife also a runner?

Yes, but not a scholarship athlete. We met at the Santa Monica College track, she would jog there on a regular basis. That was 1971 or so. When I was men’s cross country coach at New Mexico Junior College she was the first female athlete and she ran on the cross country team at Ft Hays State University one season. She ran 20 minutes for three miles, so not bad for the amount of running she did. We still walk and jog together several times a week.

H. R. Block wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

I did win the Southern Pacific Association AAU Marathon in 1973 and the association paid my way to the 1974 Boston Marathon. Best part I stopped on the way home to visit my future wife when she attended Tulsa University. By far the best thing in my life....

I hope you claimed that on your taxes. ?

Probably not, but back then you had price controls on air travel. I suppose the ticket was a couple hundred dollars at the time. However, I had a good job as a Senior Contract Analyst at Northrop Aircraft and made around $1,000 a month.

Just An Old Fitness Runner wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

I did win the Southern Pacific Association AAU Marathon in 1973 and the association paid my way to the 1974 Boston Marathon. Best part I stopped on the way home to visit my future wife when she attended Tulsa University. By far the best thing in my life....

Nice story to hear...was your future wife also a runner?

Check out places 36th and 45th:

BRUSHHHHHHHHH WIIIIIIITH GREAAAAATNE —

oh wait, it’s the son.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Just An Old Fitness Runner wrote:

Nice story to hear...was your future wife also a runner?

Check out places 36th and 45th:

http://wtrunning.com/2014/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/24.1978-FC-All.txt

George W! Wow!

I didn't realize how fast he was until I just read this archived interview with him by RW back in 2002 during his first term in Office. In his mid-50s he could crank out 20:30 to 20:45 mins for 3 miles, according to the article. Simply amazing! Why so amazing? Because "W" wasn't a thin, lightweight, small middle-aged runner. I recall reading somewhere he was in 185-190 lb range (5-11) when he took office. So, if that's correct, a 5-11, ~185 pound mid-50s guy (and the President no less) running a 20:30 3 miler is very impressive (age and size are big factors in the ability to run without incurring debilitating injuries).

Anyone know if he still runs these days? He'd be over 70 now. And the last time I saw him in public was at his father's funeral services.

I think he has A-fib and just works around his ranch chopping wood, that sort thing.

I thought I heard something that he developed OA in one knee that put the kibosh on his running? And wasn't he riding mountain bikes with Lance a few times down at his big Texas ranch?

Still probably the fastest President that ran while in Office. I remember how sad Carter looked during that 10k he ran where the Secret Service agents had to carry him.

I would like to pose a question to the group please. What has been your experience when competing in intense heat conditions? What precautions and adjustments did you take that you found helpful?

Background three recent heat related events:

-Recently (June 30th) I ran a local 5k on a USATF certified course with about 350 runners that started at 7:30 p.m. Both the car outside temperature gauge reading was 87degrees as was the my app on my smart phone (which also showed 71% humidity) So I geared back my expectations but still got sucked out with a large group an hit the mile at 6:25 (a little fast for me even under cooler conditions), but my training has been decent and I hung on to place 4th over the open masters at age 62 against the top three masters at 41, 43, and 54 year (the latter who was a two time Olympic Trials qualifier and previously ran a 1:02 HM). So I was okay with my finish comparatively. Later, I Looked up Jack Daniels VDOT Running calculator and entered the temp under the advanced features option. It said the effect should be about :17 per mile! Really??? If so I am happy with my equivalent time - which is very very rare for me.

-Four days later I ran the 4th of July mile (same city) at 09:00 it was 76 degrees. The calculator said even that temp had an effect on performance of :07 seconds. Again this seems a little extreme. How accurate you you folks think that is?

-At tonight's organized (but mercifully truncated) track workout it was 92 degrees. Everyone factored that in and survived, but it wasn't pleasant. I guess there is something to the adage what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

The crux of my question: Next I gearing for pretty large mile road run next Monday - the forecast for 6:30 p.m is 84 degrees so I know it will have an effect, but still want to run well - there are only so many mile races around here and you have take them where you find them (and still have a little unfinished business between myself, the WMA Age-Graded Calculator, and the clock!)

Open to advice or your personal experiences. TIA ( and please excuse my typos - I am sort of beat, but can't sleep)