50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Rtype wrote:

I was watching a YouTube vid of these nutty ortho guys who had this crazy idea to sit in your office chair and pull yourself across the floor isolating your hams and glutes.

I just saw this on BBC World News last night. So maybe the idea is not so crazy...

My week.

M: off.

T-SA: 6 miles.

SU: 10 miles.

My training was derailed on May 15, when I had a car accident. (Someone ran through a stop sign, and my car crashed into the side of his car.) I didn't get injured. But dealing with the insurance company of the other driver took so much out of me (I eventually ended up buying a new car because that was cheaper the fixing the old car). I was without a car for nine days, and walked 25,000-35,000 steps per day just to take care of my daily life. Now I am finally "back on track" and I was able to run six times last week. I will go on a two week vacation later this week. So my training will be "derailed" once again. But that's my choice, so I am okay with that.

Charlie - I did sauna a couple times a week before Tampa last year, as well as adding multi layers on some of my treadmill runs and felt pretty well adapted. This time I'll be lucky if dew point is under 68 or 70, but can always hope! But going back to the sauna is a good idea and we have a health club near my work.

I'm mixed on tapering too. While I think you need to cut back some on race weeks, a mult-week taper for

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

In regards to tapering, taking off the day before can make one sluggish. So if you are going to take a day off go two days before the race. IMO.

This is what my husband always says. He's a cyclist, not a runner.

I've never been big on tapering. I don't take days completely off during the taper, and for anything up to a half-marathon my "taper" is just a few days that are shorter and easier than usual. Before a marathon I take more like a full week easy, and my last 20+ mile run should be 3 weeks before the race. But I can't say I've experimented too much with these formulas, so I don't even know if they are what work best for me.

When I was a serious marathon runner I would run for three hours “easy” eight days prior. I usually covered 30 miles.

Coyote Montane wrote:

Charlie - I did sauna a couple times a week before Tampa last year, as well as adding multi layers on some of my treadmill runs and felt pretty well adapted. This time I'll be lucky if dew point is under 68 or 70, but can always hope! But going back to the sauna is a good idea and we have a health club near my work.

I'm mixed on tapering too. While I think you need to cut back some on race weeks, a mult-week taper for

“The Games from 1970 has to be near the top of any list [worst running movies].

Based on a novel (which I haven't read), it seems to use the 1960 Rome Olympics as its starting point. The film follows four marathoners as they prepare for and run the Olympic marathon. The American hope and bad boy is played by Ryan O'Neal whom we first encounter winning a 400. The British runner (Michael Crawford) has a maniacal coach (Stanley Baker) who wants him to be the first to run under 2:00 and has him training in a steam room [

After a week of daily 30 minute sauna sessions I seem to sweat more at lower temps also feel really good afterwards. The highs rarely get out of the 60s which I like but am sold on the sauna.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick on benefits of sauna , she sure is pretty smart:

https://youtu.be/aHOlM-wlNjM?t=204

...there was a scene training in the steam room, another where the coach was on the athlete’s back (piggyback style).....

If you never have seen “The Games,” rent it, worth the laugh.

That said, Benji Durden trained in a multiple sweatshirts or sauna suit used by wrestlers wanting to make weight.....

Not a bad adaptation tool....

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Charlie,

Suggested 5k Saturday Taper: Wednesday: mile tempo pace, 1,000m interval pace, 2 x 200m repetition pace; 1/2 distance jog between; Thursday off; Friday 10-15:00 easy; 4 x 100m strides / 20m walk

My HS coach was in influenced by Igloi. I still have my 1977 logs and darned if the above is pretty close to what we did, depending on whether we had more than one meet in the week. We ALWAYS did strides the day before a race.

I have done everything under the sun over the years. The day before my 10K PR I ran a hard 10 miler. I never figured out why or how that worked. Now, in all honesty, my performance level is so low that no matter what I do it won't make much difference. Because I run so little I take the Roger Bannister route of thinking of it as having a limited amount of energy to use so I rest plenty (remember he took 5 days off before the first sub 4). But my entire premise now is the completely alien concept of purposefully under-training.

amkelley wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

In regards to tapering, taking off the day before can make one sluggish. So if you are going to take a day off go two days before the race. IMO.

This is what my husband always says. He's a cyclist, not a runner.

Curious: Was your husband a runner previously and transitioned to cycling or has he always been a cyclist? And if he was a runner what led to cycling, and if he's always been a cyclist has he ever considered trying running? (I've usually seen couples who are both runners, cyclists, swimmers, etc., more than each one doing a difference sport...generally speaking).

Due to so many chronic injuries I've had in my late 50's including bad acute tendon & muscle tears, I'm facing the unpleasant consequence of having to transition to cycling (The last couple of years I had a ratio of about 5 months of running vs 7 months of complete down time due to injuries ?).

Chronically-Injured Old Runner wrote:

Curious: Was your husband a runner previously and transitioned to cycling or has he always been a cyclist? And if he was a runner what led to cycling, and if he's always been a cyclist has he ever considered trying running? (I've usually seen couples who are both runners, cyclists, swimmers, etc., more than each one doing a difference sport...generally speaking).

Due to so many chronic injuries I've had in my late 50's including bad acute tendon & muscle tears, I'm facing the unpleasant consequence of having to transition to cycling (The last couple of years I had a ratio of about 5 months of running vs 7 months of complete down time due to injuries ?).

My husband has been a serious competitive cyclist (time trials mostly) for about 30 years. When he was younger he did some running including the occasional 10K for fun, but he never seriously competed as a runner. He is the worst overpronator you've ever seen and has to wear hard orthotics even for walking, and as a runner he is an injury waiting to happen. He does jog (about 12 min/mile pace now at age 65) once or twice a week for a mile or two just to not completely lose the ability to run. But at 65 he can still ride almost every young cyclist in town off his wheel.

I have been running for about 40 years, and while I also enjoy cycling and switch over entirely to cycling when injured, I've never been any good on the bike. I can just barely hang on my husband's wheel for an hour or so when he is cruising along at an easy pace and I'm working as hard as I can. Even when I was a very good marathoner I just couldn't figure out how to generate any power on a bike. But I do have a nice road bike that fits me well and is pleasant to ride, and I live in a place where the weather is OK for outdoor cycling much of the year, and I do use cycling as cross-training when I need to. My main problem with cycling is the fear of crashes, which happen to nearly all cyclists once in a while.

Nice work signing up to toe the track line Charlie & Igy.

It's interesting, to me anyway, how much harder it is to do so at age 58.90, especially when you're the oldest in the field. My confidence was definitely challenged Sunday at PDX Track Fest. They mixed us Masters Milers with the Open at the last minute. Didn't matter much as I knew I was trying to be in last place at the gun for a somewhat comfortable 880yds. Mission failed. Was not last at 409m 78.6 and was at 809m 2:38.8 but striggled to stay close to anyone. Not at all comfortable. Tried to get my mind around "just one more lap", but all of a sudden the drop-out-devil yanked me off the track at 1009m. And that was that.

OK old timers how do you turn a negative into a positive with ABQ race plans of 1500m one week, and 800m ten days, later? I reckon, as a coach and athlete, it important to find a silver lining. Tomorrow is my final workout designed for my fave race 800m. Then taper and travel and racing in my own age-group time in Albuquerque. Wish me confidence.

Thanks.

KP

I'm doing 25-30 mpw at this point. I'm coming back from injury so I'm at about 2:50 or so right now- that was on no workouts.

I've been doing hill repeats- 80 meters, pretty steep grade right out my front door (I live at the bottom of hill).

I just started back at the track and do 200'3/300's and then some shorter "all out" 50-100 meters with long recovery at the end.

2:20 may be a pipe dream but I'll work for it. TBH, I'll be happy if I get in the 2:20's and for the time being 2:40 is my first goal.

a sub 2:10 800 seems so easy but that was long ago.

Thanks for all the advice and support everyone.

KP,

You understand the gig; you are out there for all to see, even though you are the only one who really cares. But how many people never put themselves out there? There is a certain personality, rare really, that is willing to do that. The track can be especially brutal for the ego. A good anaerobic shock to the system will set you up for Albuquerque. Have some fun, and remember: you still have to mow the lawn when you get home.

Igy

I had another thought about tapering this morning. The broader your base of training, the better you are able to sustain a peak. The more narrow your base of fitness, the closer you need to stay training to maintain a peak. Intuitively it would seem the other way around, but not to my experience.

Charlie wrote:

Taporing:

Anyone have a sure fire that works for them tapering ?

Tapers leave me feeling flat, of course maybe I do em wrong.

I think a mistake that many make is getting away from your primary training focus during a taper. For example, distance running is highly dependent on aerobic energy, so why do people drastically reduce their mileage when tapering? Shouldn’t we be focusing on aerobic training at that time?

KPdx wrote:

OK old timers how do you turn a negative into a positive with ABQ race plans of 1500m one week, and 800m ten days, later? I reckon, as a coach and athlete, it important to find a silver lining. Tomorrow is my final workout designed for my fave race 800m. Then taper and travel and racing in my own age-group time in Albuquerque. Wish me confidence.

Thanks.

KP

I'm just glad to hear someone else feels like I do. I thought I was the only one with the negative thoughts and thinking about quitting. Guess it happens to the best of us!

I don't remember ever dropping out of a race. I've bagged runs though the past few years. Several times I've gotten about 1/4 mile out and turned around walking home. Saturday after my warmup for my race I told my friend I don't really feel like racing and just driving home right now! Then I thought I could drop out at 1 mile with no one noticing....then again at two. Somehow I pushed thru and finished.

So now I've had two really good runs this week and my mindset is in a better place. Guess it just takes a good run.

Didn't really answer your question. But you're not alone.

Dave

Coach X that was my conclusion a few weeks ago. Right now my strength is my base so I need to keep my miles up and that is what I am doing. I did take a few really easy days after each hard race specific workout but otherwise business as usual.

Igy I feel like my base is pretty broad. Like today I did a 20 minute FCR on the beach. Have no idea on the pace but I kept the effort just a tad below 5k and felt really good no fatigue just enjoying the run. Without a broad base a 20 minute FCR would feel harder towards the end and recovery would take longer.

KP you gotta be one of the toughest runners I have ever met.

I dropped out of one track race. A 5000 when I was 42 and trying to break 16. It was really weird experience. I felt like quitting as I do in most races but for some reason I just bagged it. I was mad with myself almost immediately in fact to this day I wish I had finished the race. A guy who was pretty savvy about racing told me straight up DON'T MAKE A HABIT OF DROPPING OUT. That was good advice so there ya go .

Onward fellow Oldsters---->>>>>>

I remember the phrase pain makes cowards of us all. For me it means that I can't think too much about the pain of racing so much has just try and isolate specific time goals during a race and having potential adjustments to a pace. The difficulty with any track race is you feel so exposed and no place to hide. So KP, I would say relish being as exposed as you can be with nationals and you know that your best is better than 99% of the rest

I love forgot to mention that my last two weeks have been 29 1/2 mile weeks which is quite good for me. Today I ran 4×1/3 of a mile and my best was two minutes and 32 seconds so my big aim, struggles, ambition or what ever you want to call it is just to run some sub eight minute miles for this 68-year-old body and look forward to the day I can race as a 70-year-oldand enjoy the effort and enjoy the process and try not to forget that