50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Great postings today and this week y'all. Thanks, as always, for the motivation.

October in Southern Utah is a crazy time of year to run a few middle-distance track races but some of us are in need of a last minute Q for 2019 Seniors in Albuquerque. Nice fields in the 800-1500-3000 for M55-59.

Meanwhile, time to go LSD today.

KP

Enjoying the thread this week... well except for... L2b you need deleting powers!

My week went ok. Heel pain seemed to be slightly worse mid week. It felt perfectly fine though today. Hmmm....

Hit my planned miles for the week with 36.8. Ran slightly better than expected in my race, which ended up being 3.3 due to altering the because of construction. At least they let us know before the race! Ended up with a 19:35 for an 85.62% on the age grade charts. Worth about a 18:24 5k. Won the overall Age Grading, barely, against some tough local young guys and a professional Triathlete

Here's my week from my log...

Mon: 7.1 miles @ 8:03/mi. Felt kind of wup'd tonite. Right leg achy, groin and ham. Probably from standing at the concert and staying up too late watching the stupid Bears. Mostly steady 824,759,803,808,758,754,752. 163.4 after run

Tue: 7.2 miles @ 7:33/mi. Felt 1000 x better than yesterday. Idled thru the run, backed off often. 745,738,736,735,734,732 then 6x20sec on/off avg 535/pace

Wed: 5.0 miles @ 8:37/mi. Very easy morning jog. Felt nice to run this slow without checking the watch. 912,840,833,824,812

Thu: 3.8 miles @ 7:34/mi. Felt ok on my run. Worked a bit late. Heel has been just a tad bit more sore lately. 8:00,736,716 then 4x30/60sec on/off avg 5:43/mi

Fri: Off

Sat: Game Day Chase. Race went about as expected. 19:35 for 3.30. 18:24'ish 5K. 8th oa/1st55-59. 1.6 wup, 3.3 race, 3.15 cdn 85.62% AG

Sun: 5.6 miles @ 8:00/mi. Pretty good 'no look' run. Heel felt best it has all week. Stinkin' hot and humid!!! 818,804,802,749,756,.6 745 pace

Shooting for 40 miles this week then I think I'll just try to hold that for a while. And instead of racing in Louisville in two weeks, I'll be the guide runner for a very good vision impaired womens runner. I guided her two years ago to the overall womens title. She is the current womens world record holder for VI runners in the HM and was the overall womens winner in the Flying Pig Marathon in 2011. It will be a lot more challenging than the course two years ago with many winding curves and hills thru the Louisville Zoo. Looking forward to it.

Have a good week,

Dave

KC,

I've been a vegetarian since age 18, but was looking to add more protein sources. Unfortunately, I can't eat dairy now either, so I've been exploring nut milks (quite good and interchangeable for dairy in recipes) and some vegan cheeses (not so good). I guess the upside to the crackers and ginger diet is that I didn't gain weight during the layoff. My daughter has purchased meal plans from a vegan website and she really likes them, so maybe I should go that route for new meal ideas too.

I went out and bought ibuprofen for this injury and I do think it helped with the inflammation and pain, but not enough for me to continue running. I haven't used any this week in my return to running because I wanted to monitor the injury site.

With today's ~7.5 mi hilly trail run, I reached 50% of my goal mileage, and ~55% of my prior mileage for the week. The weekend's runs were far less draining than those at the beginning of the week. Whew!

I am cautiously optimistic that I may be able to run 75% of either goal or previous high this week, which is the start of my xc training. I will probably stick to flatter and less uneven routes this week until I know I'm back at full strength. Wet trails are slick! And I need to be mindful of the need to continue doing the core strength work to ensure that I won't get injured or fall.

MG

Mike L - I fell and fractured my sacrum when I was 40 - and it took me 6 months to get back to pre-injury shape. The pain was pretty incredible. So, while I didn't get a new x-ray, we did check pretty carefully that I hadn't done that again.

I'm glad our Carolina folk haven't been flooded. We visited New Bern years ago and it's sad to see the pictures from there.

I saw the results of the race and found that I did the math wrong and actually ran even splits for the race. Nice to know that my body can gauge even pace, even though it felt awful. My daughter managed to get 9 seconds on me the last 1/2 mi.! ;D

Ghost, while I hate to feed the troll by responding to his behavior, I have started reporting his posts that appear on this thread. I have spent more than 25 years now volunteering with a local non-profit that provides various mental health programs to the local community. The obsessiveness of this guy pursuing you across this message board goes well beyond normal message board disagreement. It indicates someone who genuinely needs at least some professional assistance in dealing with whatever issues he has (these kinds of behaviors are far more prevalent in males than females due to the greater genetic fragility of the Y chromosome). I'm sorry that you ended up as the fixation of whatever pathological dissatisfactions he has in his life. I really hope he gets some help with his issues eventually. If you get over to Spokane to run or spectate in December we can say hello, tell running war stories and maybe have a beer rather than talking about crazy people.

SC gal nice triathlon!

Ignore the trolls, don't leave, not everything needs to be responded too

Training for the week is still going

Monday 15 miles bike on the trainer - weights later in the day

Tuesday 750 swim 14:27 4 miles 7:45 pace felt good

Wednesday Short shop ride 22 miles about 15 miles in I felt something relax or break up or something in my lungs, Suddenly I was able to breathe deeper again. I could feel my lungs inflate to my ribs. It was awesome I immediately felt better

Thursday 750 swim 14:00 4 miles at 7:55 pace - it was really uncomfortable running very humid

Friday 19 mile bike with two of the guys on the team. Was able to sprint and get my HR to 183. I schooled the rookie on the sprint sign sprint that he started

Saturday Hosted a high school XC meet - pretty beat after. 2 mile easy racewalking

Sunday 6 miles just at 8:30 pace with an alum. Felt good but tired from working the meet.

Hope everyone is ok in the Carolinas.

Have a good week all

old guy II,

Yes my wife has worried about this individual and I have forwarded the posts to our daughter (the attorney). So at least there is some documentation should this go further.

In regards to December, if I can continue to progress I plan to attend. The main concern is whether the radiation will set me back again. I am going to cut back my work hours during treatment a bit so I can continue with the training. I am feeling so much better than I did two months ago. Pretty much normal routine, so hopefully any step back won’t be too great. Our club is planning on a contingent and we have enough bodies for a 60s men’s team.

It looks you are getting fit. The cross country race I plan to run is on the course where they ran the Mountain West Championships in 2016. I haven’t raced cross country in seven years so it will be a nice change. I would also like to make it to Carlsbad in April.

The first beer is on me.

Igy

This thread can be fun but it can be tough to get any type of reply or acknowledgement. As opposed to the obvious trolls who seem to stir up the sh*t with ease. How about ignoring them and sharing the wealth among friends?

Igy wasn't toward you per se but the troll/stalker. But I'm stepping out for awhile. Good luck with everything to you and all. Carry on.

OK.

OK.

Mon. Mountain bike ride. 1 hr 30 m. 3 climbs up the Mt Ida fire tower road fastest 14.46.

Tue. 6.6 km very rugged rocky trail run in 53 mins, 205 metres elevation gain finishing at the firetower on Mt Ida. Jumped on the bike and a quick 10 minute descent. Then ran 2.1 km back up via the Hard Way track, 180 metres elevation gain. 20 mins.

Later on I headed out to the waterhole for a 33 minute kayak session.

Wed. Steep run of 6.9 kms in 1 hour, only 300 metres elevation gain but some section were off trail and just bush bashing /log jumping.

Walked about 3.5 km home through the forest when it got to dark for safe running.

Thu. Mountain bike ride. 1 hr 10 mins. Did 3 climbs up the fire tower road again. This time I had some legs. 12.55 12.53 11.56. The last one is only 2 secs of my strava segment best. Felt good. The aerobic engine is working again.

Fri. A fun 40 minutes of kayaking in the Campaspe between work and going out for dinner. The river is half a metre higher than it normally is (water release from the dam 3 km upstream) so it was hard work on the way out. Great fun sprinting back down in half the time.

Sat. 10.7 km trail run in 1 hr 15 mins. 335 metres elevation gain. A couple of tough climbs.

Sun. 9.5 km easy trail run in 1 hour with about 200 metres elevation gain. Just trotting along comfortably.

Another week of banking some fitness gains.

Thursday's bike was pleasing as it tells me I have some good aerobic fitness. If only I can manage the dodgy running legs...

“So, have you ever read 'Once a Runner'? If so, everybody's favorite chapter is when Quentin Cassidy runs 40 x 440.”

MikeF,

The chapter goes something like this, Cassidy’s routine is the standard 20 x 440 yards. But Bruce Denton’s mood (Jack Batchelor like character) seems to indicate something tougher like double that. Sure enough Denton adds another set after the first, disappears and returns around number 40. Denton tells Cassidy one more set, but this one you are alone, you can do it, or not. Just like in a race suffering alone. So it was actually 60 x 440. Now I do think you have suffered enough so 40 x 200 meters is quite enough.

Igy

Muddy girl wrote:

I've been a vegetarian since age 18, but was looking to add more protein sources. Unfortunately, I can't eat dairy now either, so I've been exploring nut milks (quite good and interchangeable for dairy in recipes) and some vegan cheeses (not so good). I guess the upside to the crackers and ginger diet is that I didn't gain weight during the layoff. My daughter has purchased meal plans from a vegan website and she really likes them, so maybe I should go that route for new meal ideas too.

I went out and bought ibuprofen for this injury and I do think it helped with the inflammation and pain, but not enough for me to continue running. I haven't used any this week in my return to running because I wanted to monitor the injury site.

I switched to Nutiva's plant protein powder once I broke it off with dairy. It's from different plant sources, not just pea or whatever, and has a pretty similar profile to whey protein isolates. Otherwise PB2 (protein without the fat) and of course the tofu and tempehs are the only manufactured plant based foods I keep around.

It's kind of a disservice to the creamy goodness that you can make in a blender with softened and seasoned nuts (almonds and cashews mostly) to call it "cheese." It's stunning to see how much vegan cheese goes for at the store. I'm guessing that figures into your opinion of it -- first, it's a misnomer, second it's just not good value.

I do miss yogurt, especially the full fat kind I made in the thermal pot. Mmmmmm. Once I figure out how to make that from other sources I'll post it here for the two readers who might be interested!

M59 -- 5'11" 162 lbs

Last year (2017) -- 18:58 5K, 59:59 15K, 3:07:23 marathon

This year (2018) -- 19:13 5K, 1:02:36 15K

Goals -- 19:00 5K this autumn; 3:00 marathon Oct. 2019

Sept 10-16, 2018

Off

Easy -- 6.0 miles @ 8:23/mi

LT -- 2.5-mi warmup; 4x1-mi@CV w/2-min rest (6:32, 6:14, 6:15, 5:58); 1-mi cooldown

Easy -- 7.7 miles @ 8:25/mi

Easy -- 4.0 miles @ 10:03/mi

VO2 -- 3.9-mi warmup; 5K race @ 6:14/mi (19:23/mi)

Easy -- 8.7 miles @ 8:58/mi

WEEK TOTAL: 40.9 MILES

Wednesday workout: The mile repeats were run at fairly even effort, except for the last half of the last rep, which I ran hard to hit 5:58. That's the first sub-6 mile I have had in training for at least five years.

Saturday 5K race:

I essentially trained through this race, foregoing my usual 3-day mini-taper. The weather was warm and humid, and the course fairly hilly. It's a small local race, but the course is USATF-certified.

From the gun, a group of six young runners went out fast for the mostly downhill first mile. A short but fairly steep climb to the one-mile point brought four of the youngsters back to me, as the two leaders ran 5:30, with me back at 5:56. The second-place runner dropped off pace we descended a steep hill, then started a climb to the half-way turnaround.

As I came alongside the second-place runner, he said it was amazing that an old guy like me was keeping up with a 17-year-old. I launched into a conversation about how I am only 59, and just look old. But quickly reminded myself that this wasn't a marathon ... so maybe not good to be chatting at the 1.6-mile point!

The second mile was 6:14 as I navigated a short, steep hill, then a brief downhill, then the long climb toward the finish. The gap between the leader and myself stayed constant as we both ran 6:36 for the third uphill mile. The winner finished in 19:03, with me 20 seconds behind, good for 1st Master, 1st M50-59. But there were only 161 finishers.

---

amkelley - That's phenomenal volume this past week. It astounds me how you can bounce back like that. And the paces aren't bad, either, especially that 16-miler! I know you don't run marathons anymore ... but you're in a brand-new age group ... what's a nationally competitive time for F60-64?

muddygal - Best wishes with your continued recovery. The core work reminder is one I need to hear. And heed.

daaga - I also noticed that guy visibly sprinting on the sidewalk, barely keeping pace with the smooth-sailing Kipchoge. I don't even want to think about how I would look trying to run that speed!

lucKY2b - A little progress is better than none. I'm looking forward to when you're racing again.

old guy II - I've been considering racing an XC race next weekend. It's only a 5K on a relatively tame course, but I worry how it might impact my achilles, especially wearing spikes. Anyway, sounds like you had a great race! Hope you're doing better today, and are ready to race again this weekend.

oldmanaged52 - Your tempo pace was my 5K pace in my 40s. Now it's faster than my one-mile pace. Hard to fathom, but keep it going, sir!

SCgal - Good to hear you're weathering the storm. Fantastic triathlon! And great job fighting the fatigue at the end. Any word on how the jellyfish victim fared?

Charlie - I need to take some time to digest your stats and formulas. Maybe apply them to my 2019 marathon attempt! (No way I will EVER break 5 mins for a mile again ... didn't even manage that in my 40s).

MikeF - How did you feel after that mega-200 workout? It's been suggested that I start doing some faster stuff ... but I'm afraid of crippling myself with the attempt ...

Rtype - Wow, I can't imagine dealing with that much rain. Especially in a flood-prone city. Hope you can manage through it.

Olde Farte - Good luck with the speedwork.

Phoenix - Another speed guy!

Igy - Your continued progress looks good. Admirable weight-loss, too. Portion control? I have heard of it, but not quite sure what that is!

KP - Hope Sunday's long run went well.

Racerdb - Already racing at 85+ AG percentage. Incredible! Is it too early to ask if you have any specific plans for M60 competition? Next year?

Coyote - Hope you're not gone too long. It's fun to follow along with your racing.

Mike Rohl - Still planning on racing the 5K XC this coming Sunday? I hope to be there.

mo'pak - Another nicely varied week. How many more years will you be working that rotating shift? That would kill me at this age. Took my wife to the airport in the middle of the night last week, and the sleep disruption has rattled me ever since!

Have a great week, folks!

oldmanaged52 wrote:

50 mile week

2 hrs 30 aqua jogging

2 workouts

8 x 400 @ 68 with 90sec rest

15m incl 10 mile tempo run at 5:31 average

Half marathon in 3 weeks if all goes well

cheers

Old man, is this a low mileage week for you? I’m working my way to 50/wk and I really can’t see doing more that. I just don’t have the time! It’s cheering to see you keeping so fit at 50 miles.

Allen nice race and report.

So here is an example using YOU

Lets say you currently average 50mpw and AG about 82 percent

If you could DOUBLE your miles to 100 mpw your AG would go up to 92 percent

I just kinda made it complicated but in one sentence

Double your current training to get 10 percent better age grading

Charlie wrote:

Double your current training to get 10 percent better age grading

OK. Last year's marathon was 78.7% AG. I need 84% AG next year. That's a 6.7% improvement.

I averaged maybe 45 mpw last year. So add 30 mpw, right?

75 mpw. 11 miles per day. Hmm... Wonder how far in advance I would need to start maintaining that much volume.

Thanks, Charlie. Food for thought.

Allen1959 wrote:

M59 -- 5'11" 162 lbs

Last year (2017) -- 18:58 5K, 59:59 15K, 3:07:23 marathon

This year (2018) -- 19:13 5K, 1:02:36 15K

Goals -- 19:00 5K this autumn; 3:00 marathon Oct. 2019

Sept 10-16, 2018

Off

Easy -- 6.0 miles @ 8:23/mi

LT -- 2.5-mi warmup; 4x1-mi@CV w/2-min rest (6:32, 6:14, 6:15, 5:58); 1-mi cooldown

Easy -- 7.7 miles @ 8:25/mi

Easy -- 4.0 miles @ 10:03/mi

VO2 -- 3.9-mi warmup; 5K race @ 6:14/mi (19:23/mi)

Easy -- 8.7 miles @ 8:58/mi

WEEK TOTAL: 40.9 MILES

mo'pak - Another nicely varied week. How many more years will you be working that rotating shift? That would kill me at this age. Took my wife to the airport in the middle of the night last week, and the sleep disruption has rattled me ever since!

Have a great week, folks!

I would like to give it up but I will be due for long service leave in the near future (14 weeks paid leave) so will persevere for now. Unfortunately it is not even rotating shifts it is pretty much just random.

I guess you just get used to it over the years.