Training for a Sub 2:30 marathon

Mate,

For heavens sake build a base. Just shut yourself away and churn out good mileage. 12 weeks of the stuff without any days off will get you strong as an ox. Otherwise your body won't be strong enough to handle marathon workouts.

In fact I'd recommend working on your 5k, 10k and half marathon times before even contemplating a marathon, let alone breaking 2:30.

What's more the marathon is unique in that it needs a certain amount of respect. Sub 2:30 is still a great achievement for good club runners; many a good 5k and 10k guy has realized that just because they can run 31 minutes it doesn't mean to say that they're going to run 2:20.

And a final bit of advice my friend: if you're not prepared to do the basics first before doing all these "sick" marathon workouts eg 3-4 long runs a week, drills, strides, hills, core work, sub threshold, double workouts etc you're going to be in for one hell of a shock.

Sorry to have to tell you this but just wanted you to understand what you're letting yourself in for.

Mate,

For heavens sake build a base. Just shut yourself away and churn out good mileage. 12 weeks of the stuff without any days off will get you strong as an ox. Otherwise your body won't be strong enough to handle marathon workouts.

In fact I'd recommend working on your 5k, 10k and half marathon times before even contemplating a marathon, let alone breaking 2:30.

What's more the marathon is unique in that it needs a certain amount of respect. Sub 2:30 is still a great achievement for good club runners; many a good 5k and 10k guy has realized that just because they can run 31 minutes it doesn't mean to say that they're going to run 2:20.

And a final bit of advice my friend: if you're not prepared to do the basics first before doing all these "sick" marathon workouts eg 3-4 long runs a week, drills, strides, hills, core work, sub threshold, double workouts etc you're going to be in for one hell of a shock.

Sorry to have to tell you this but just wanted you to understand what you're letting yourself in for.

All,

What is Canova's reasoning behind doing an AM workout at 85% MRP and a PM run of 6-8 miles at marathon race pace?

Coach Canova, If you would be willing to share it would be appreciated. Thank you

Nate

www.teampennington.net

Nate Pennington wrote:

All,

What is Canova's reasoning behind doing an AM workout at 85% MRP and a PM run of 6-8 miles at marathon race pace?

Coach Canova, If you would be willing to share it would be appreciated. Thank you

Nate

http://www.teampennington.net

Perhaps Pablo can clarify but I assumed that it was 6-7 @ 85% + 6 - 7 @ 100% in the AM and the PM rather than one in the morning and the other in the evening. Otherwise I don't think that it touches the level of the other workouts.

Yeah, it's 10K+10K in the morning and again in the afternoon/evening with little to no carbohydrates during and between the runs. Canova calls it a "super-compensation" run and suggests you take 2-3 days easy before and after the workout. I actually did the workout a couple weeks ago and it was a pretty tough session.

The second 10k needs to be 100-103%MP and can be as far as 15k@MP. You can also run something like 10x1k with 2:00 rest at HMP in the afternoon, after the 85% 10k, if you're running it intensively.

MarD wrote:

Perhaps Pablo can clarify but I assumed that it was 6-7 @ 85% + 6 - 7 @ 100% in the AM and the PM rather than one in the morning and the other in the evening. Otherwise I don't think that it touches the level of the other workouts.

That's how I read it as well. I agree, on paper, it doesn't look as difficult as some of his other stuff. When, blaznbison did that workout, I think he did the MP paces a little faster than I would have been comfortable with...and thus, it looked more difficult. Personally, the look of the 18-22 miles steady @ 90-95% of MP looks the most demanding IMO.

I'm excited to try out a Canova cycle for Chicago this fall, admittedly a little nervous though. But I feel if I can handle some/most of these workouts in the Florida summer for the final 6-8 weeks...that should make the marathon feel relatively easy.

I should note that there's gotta be a reason Canova only suggests doing these workouts in the last 6-8 weeks. If you try doing these for 10-14 weeks straight, I imagine burnout or injury chances increase exponentially. I'm planning on putting in a massive base period (2+ months), taking a couple down weeks, then transistioning to the Canova stuff.

"Secondly,

I think the OP is a troll. He is being a little too obnoxiously confident about his 2:30 goal when he does not have times to back this as a reasonable goal, and he does not have any serious training cycles to show he is actually committed to this idea.

I'm shooting to run a 2:35 in my upcoming marathon. 2:30 is not just a time you can say you are shooting for when you have nothing to base it off of. that takes away from the guys who are actually putting in the training and giving 2:30 a real shot.

you ran a 1:30 half marathon. please say you want to run a 1:20 half marathon or something reasonable like that before you just say you want to run a 2:30"

First off, if plan to insult me, grow a pair and use your real user name. That is more troll-like than anything I have said.

Second, I said I ran a 1:30 on a total of 17 miles TRAINING. After taking a year off.

I ran from the time I was 12 until age 18 year round with 2 weeks off between Cross and Track and vice-versa.

I believe that if I do train, I can accomplish pretty close to 2:30. I am in now way taking away from the guys that have/ and are training to do so. I admire them. And I'm sorry my positivity towards it is obnoxious to you. I got challenged to see which of me and my 2 friends could run a 1:15 half first. Put down $75. And then realized I loved running again and I want to run a marathon fast as well. Go get your 2:35, that's awesome. But when you go for it, take your sorry attitude with you.

the marathon deserves respect...it can humble you - but I think you can do it. Its hard to say how long it's going to take though because marathon performance is somewhat related to lifetime miles.

the threads on here are a great resource, and finding out what works for others around that time goal is key. I think the book "Advanced Marathoning" by Pete Pfitzinger is very good and provides a solid plan (i.e. it has a semi-long run each week as well as a long run, and workouts like 2 mile repeats close to lactate threshold pace/effort).

running your easy days easy and getting the mileage up should probably be the first thing you want to do though.

I've run 5 marathons - one was over 2:30 and only one was under 2:20. It is an event that will either build you up or break you down. You have to respect it, and the high mileage runners usually have the most success. You have enough speed and talent to do it, it is just a matter of building strength and the necessarily physical adaptations for the effort. I wouldn't say you have to run under 1:10 flat for the half, but running under 1:12 would be a good start as well. good luck.

This is a mostly a good post and I feel obligated to throw my mind into the mix because my upcoming goal is to break 2:30 in the marathon as well.

First off, my first marathon was 2:56 running around 40-50 MPW. I then went out and ran a 1:14 a month later with about the same training. This was after taking a few years off of running much like you have. I build up to 50MPW in about 6 months with only a couple harder workouts each week.

After these performances I felt a similar fire churning inside myself to see how far down I could get these times. I started building up mileage again but got injured skateboarding(Huge gaping gash for 3 weeks) which slowed my training, but I still hit a 2:54 marathon an a tough course(goal was 2:45). It was a good race, I wasnt disappointed, but felt that it was no where near my potential.

Inspired even from failing to hit my goal, I decided to do extensive research on what it would take to get my time down to 2:30. This is what I am doing in general. If you want my full training plan in excel and word, hit me up

Jakefure@gmail.com

1. More miles. I am currently doing a 12 week base phase building mileage up over 100MPW. All at a moderate pace(around 7 min/mile) with one long run(2 hours+) and one harder workout (hills, track, tempo, fartlek, ect).

2. Recovery. When you are pumping out high mileage you must be able to recover efficiently from the pounding that your body takes. This means taking it easy on easy days(non of this 6min easy pace....). Eat high carb, low fat diet(I eat mostly vegan). This means mostly plants, rice and beans. SLEEP. 8-10 hours and naps if available. Stretching, sauna, rolling out and whatever else you may enjoy for recovery.

3. Mind. You have to want it and you have to enjoy it. It is going to be hard. GET MOTIVATED BECAUSE ITS GOING TO HURT AND YOU BETTER LIKE IT BITCH! No one runs a 2:30 marathon without a ton of hard work and dedication. You gotta write it down, focus on the goal and develop a determined mindset. For example, yesterday I had two workouts planned in a busy day. I ran 6 miles in the AM before my 8 hour work shift. I got home exhausted at 7pm. I did not want to go out and do another 6 miles because i was exhausted, but I have this giant poster that says HOW BAD DO YOU WANT IT? So i put on my Flyknit Lunars(So comfy and squishy) and put in the 6 miles at 7:15 pace. And damn did it feel good to follow through. I slept like a baby :)

4. Get comfortable running fast. This may come in the later stages of training, like the last 12 weeks leading into you race. This is after you have build up your mileage so that you are extremely strong. You must have a base so you can go out and blaze 10 mile tempos and 60 seconds 400s on the track, plus recover well enough so you can do it again in 2 days! Later in your training you can put the long run off to every other week to get more high intensity training in. But this training isn't going to work unless you build up mileage in the base phase.

5. Get Educated

Here is my currently library of running books that this knowledge was assimilated from..

- "Run like a Champion" Alan Culpepper

- "Running Science" Owen Anderson

- "Marathon the Ultimate Training Guide" Hal Higdon

- "How bad do you want it?" Matt Fitzgerald

- "Eat and Run" Scott Jurek (diet)

- "Marathon Man" Bill Rodgers

- "Hansons Marathon Method" Luke Humphrey

- "Jack Daniels Running Formula"

- "Finding Ultra" Rich Roll (diet)

Good luck Brothers!!!!! Lets smash 2:30!!!!!!!!

This guy has it right. 1:32 is basically meaningless. It shows you have the slightest modicum of natural talent that most people who post on this board have. of course you "could" run 2:30, and it's great you're excited about it. But you're telling us about a 3 mile run you just did! Don't you see how silly this sounds or are you that unaware of yourself?

Just go put in the mileage and report back to us when you've actually run over 100 miles cumulative in this process.

2thinggs wrote:

I think the OP is a troll.

Who cares? He's asked a valid question, and sincere answers to it are potentially useful.

As for you OP ... I don't think you're a troll, and it's awesome you've rediscovered running and have ambition. But are you sure you picked the right goal? I understand the magical lure of the marathon, but if you hate running alone, is shooting to kill it in a marathon a great choice?

You guys realize this thread is close to 5 years old, right? The OP and all of those who initially responded are likely dead at this point.

I wonder if op ever broke 2:30

My experience....2:30 is no joke... 5:40s for several hours isn't easy.

I ran my debut at 2:36 in nyc with the goal of running 2:36... On low miles ...

I trained for 24 weeks using Daniels for my second marathon and was certainly way stronger and more prepared...I ran strong and on pace...but at 18-19 started to fade just a bit at Boston and drifted to a 2:33... I was still on close to pace at 20...but ran 6:10s the last 6 miles... Proud of the effort but 2:30 is elusive...there were 30 guys running with me until mile 10... Then maybe 5-7 after mile 15....by 18 there were 2-3 and only 1 went on to actually break 2:30...

I think most of them ran 2:40... I was all alone at 2:33.

I respected the effort and event ...it is no joke. Get lean as possible and be sure to be humble.

ha! you got me. I was a troll this whole time :-)

I ran 2:30 as a master's athlete at Chicago last year. A link to another thread in which I posted the last 12 weeks of my training cycle is here:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=7509668&thread=7506587#7509668

I was in 15:30 5k shape off of my marathon training and this was my second marathon after having run NYC in that terrible weather he year before. I had cruised to a post-peak 1:11:11 in a previous half as a masters runner. That's all said to give you a sense of my relative fitness when I ran Chicago.

The plan from which the last 12 weeks which I posted in the linked thread came from was Marathon Plan A for The Daniels' Running Formula (2nd edition), tweaked a Lytle to fit my schedule and preferences. I would second the person who suggested that you read that, as well as other books on training.

Obviously you set a long term goal, my post is intended to help you start moving toward that goal with the end in mind.

nelz 90 wrote:

ha! you got me. I was a troll this whole time :-)

You think you could have gotten your name right if it were the same troll.

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