CCRAIG VIRGIN'S THOUGHTS ON VERZBICAS TRIPLE AND CHESEREK'S RECORD

Webb ran 4:06 (2:04/1:52) for 1600m. He ran 4:01 at Arcadia toying with Ryan Hall. He could have run a full six seconds slower than he did at Pre and still broken 4'. The fact that he never did it in high school-only competition is, if anything, a testament to the fact that he had great coaching and perhaps even greater patience.

Sometimes when I take a break from our sport I can see it from a different perspective. It is easy to see why non runners can look at runners as freaks or anal or jealous of each other and I am one of you. I get psychotic about my running myself. Yes CV's ego is showing in this email but without that kind of EGO he wouldn't have achieved what he achieved as a runner. Let's run, when you get to CV's level in Running or anything for that matter you are free to say what ever you want. We are fortunate to have such runners tell stories and write on these boards. I get the feeling there are a handful of 29-31 minute ex 10K runners from the 70's and 80's on this message board that have this real anal chip on there shoulder against runners that have or had real accomplishments. They are haters and it seems to stem from jealousy. I am not talking about the average 17:45 5K runner on this board I am talking about this handful that would have been better off running 34 minutes than 29 for they were right there but never really got to taste the glory. If you want CV to change his competitive nature maybe some of you should look in the mirror and see if you are able to change your negative attitude after 40. I love to see writings from Virgin, Spivey, Padilla etc. and I hope we get more of there stories and thoughts etc. for I enjoy them without criticism.

[quote]sdffsd wrote:

Age records have their own flaws. Compare the opportunity of someone born in July versus someone born in April to run fast when they are under 18. One if going to be 17 years 10 months while the other is going to be 17 years and 1 month. That can be a lot of maturity.

quote]

The kid born in july will be the young one....

If you mean those are the ages when they race end of senior track, the July kid will be 17 11 months, the april kid 17 9 months.

How about october and August? The october kid will be 18 and 8 months and the august kid will be 17 9 months.

The obsession with age down to the months is ridiculous. It matters a lot more how long someone has been running rather than their age.

I would say it's both age and experience.

Sure 5 months is no big difference, but 10 is, 15 definately is. Now combine that with someone who has been running for a while aswell.

You get an experienced, older and more mature runner who might be an obstacle to less experience less mature runners, who are shoved in the same boat.

Experience can't be monitored, age can.

Maturity comes in a number of ways. Chronological isn't the same as physiological. We all know athletes (boys and girls) who are quite different at the same relative ages - physically "old" girls at 14 (going on 18), and boys as well, or equally physically immature boys or girls. This is a problem that really doesn't have a solution, unfortunately. So it's all rather arbitrary anyway.

Either "class" has a meaning or it doesn't - I tend to agree with Virgin that a two year window (max) should apply here for a specific class and maybe even just one year. Why can't age be a part of the determinant in that if Freshman is 15, Soph 16, Junior 17 and Senior 18, then for the purposes of these records one must move up a class (even if not from a school perspective)if one is overage, and be ineligible (for records, not competition) if over 18. The point (even though there are different statutes in various States) will be be to take the "norm" (average or most used) and that becomes the basis - if you are underage (accelerated) should records be changed to reflect that "disadvantage"?

I also agree with Coach Dunbar, that getting into Pro races (Webb/Verzbicas) shouldn't count for High school records, just as they shouldn't count for Collegiate records (tainted in my opinion, just as mixed races are for women). Run against HS competition or count as an age-group Junior record (USATF). In Canada, Kevin Sullivan ran 3.42 for 1500m in a HS-only race, he ran 3.39 at World Juniors, the latter doesn't count as a HS record (even though he was still in HS, returning the next year). The 3000m record (8.00) was done in a HS race (even though at the time there was an extra year in HS, so not comparable to US HS), although this also counted as the Age-group record at the time. This is why German F.'s performances were so good (as were LV last week), as they were HS only races. Anything outside of that scope should be counted as an age-group record much like College kids (at 18) running in better competition and so expecting to run faster than in HS.

Agreed. Some a bitter and others just haven't been able to get over themselves.

Not surprisingly, since his opinion is being held up as if it should matter to us by XC Nation and its racist writer Aron Whateverhisnameis, this...post...comes...across...as pretty ignorant.

It's cute how he adoringly brings up Verzbicas by name, calling him Lukas as if they're pals, while he won't even do the respect of calling Edward Cheserek by ANY name. He is not a refugee, and would likely by hugely insulted to be called one, the same as many Kenyans (and other nationals) who make their way to the west through hard work and ingenuity, as he has.

As soon as Virgin calls Edward Cheserek "the Kenyan refugee" his cards are on the table: jealous and ignorant xenophobe.

XC NATION wrote:

Age group records are above reproach (as long as there are accurate birth records.....or unless some blood test and age verification thru carbon testing is done)...

Blood tests for age? CARBON TESTS?

These aren't mummies, Encyclopedia Brown, they are living people. We're not trying to find out how many centuries old they are.

World youth and junior soccer tournaments use MRI to look at changes in the brain to ensure athletes aren't over age. It's not perfect, but athletics could look at that if it hasn't happened already.

In the meantime, people need to to stop feigning expertise where they have none. Even World XC winners.

KUKIMBIA wrote:

Not sure how what Craig wrote ended up on this message board.

Pretty obvious, pal. Look at the handle and email of the ORIGINAL POSTER. That racist Aron guy from XC Nation posted it.