USATF Strikes Again

all runners should boycott usatf as much as they can. Don't pay for membership or give them support, financial or otherwise, if you don't have to. This is despicable. We as athletes need to force the usatf into bankruptcy.

People who are eligible and make a team can decline. The spot goes to the next eligible person. Anyone can make a statement before a race and then change their mind about going or not going if they make a team. Very rarely does an American purposely try to keep another American from making a USA team if they can not go. I think all USA runners want the best team possible. USA runners are the not issue here.

In the past foreign runners would purposely box in, trip or use other tactics to keep the "best" USA runners from making a team. It was often more than one foreign runner working together. It could keep someone from making a final as well. It was usually subtle, but effective.

Some athletes were injured in these forays. So what if the offending person was DQed, mission accomplished. I think this was more in track and especially indoors. I am not so sure if XC was as impacted. This is one reason why many countries do not allow "foreign" athletes in their National Competitions.

I am not against this person from competing but can understand where the rule came from and why. "Eligible" terminology covers all bases. Maybe USATF should change the wording to say "Non USA citizens".

Military Coach wrote:

It was one reason for the rule change years ago when we did allow foreigners and non-eligible people to compete in National meets where we picked international teams. There were some ugly race tactics going on. Purposely trying to keep our best runners from making a team. Cold War on the track!! We learned the hard way.

I find this hard to believe. Can you name the U.S. championships at which these race tactics were employed by non-U.S. runners?

This is a stretch, but... There were several non-USATF runners in Saturday's USA Half Marathon Championships. They paid $1000 to line up and go. I didn't hear a peep from JG or any of the USATF staff, what's the difference?

If that Matt Tegenkamp guy, who almost certainly won't run world cross, gets in there and alters the tenor of the race, I hope USATF gives him some demerits or something.

If that happens, then let's put Matt Tegenkamp in the military.

Jill Geer's statement was idiotic. Any mouthpiece should stick to the rule even though this really isn't a rule. It's how USATF chooses to interpret the rule.

We can complain on this board all we want, but USATF will not change anything without pressure, so everyone needs to energize their local USATF affiliate to change this.

Just to make sure it is clear, there is nothing in the IAAF rules that prevents him from running a US race, this is purely USATF discriminating against an American citizen. IAAF rules only prevent him from representing the US at the international level for 2-3 years.

Lucky for most of us we were born here, but at some point most of us had ancestors immigrate to the US looking for a better opportunity. I am embarrassed to be a member of an organization that has forgotten this and discriminates against fellow Americans (especially a service member who has could deploy to defend our country while being denied the civil liberties he would be defending).

I'm thinking about heading over to kenya and finding about half a dozen 1:01-1:02 half marathon types to bring back to the states and have them join the military to get citizenship. Since they don't have a chance in hell to make their olympic team, I imagine that atleast some would be willing to do so since the prize money in the usa champs is so good. Once they start raking in the cash I'll be sure to have them pay me back for all of my expenses and Ill take a cut of any future earnings. If I'm lucky I'll even find an olympian or two. Anyone wanna go in on this with me?

Embarrased USATF member wrote:

We can complain on this board all we want, but USATF will not change anything without pressure, so everyone needs to energize their local USATF affiliate to change this. .

This is just as futile.

The USATF is an incompetent organization TOP TO BOTTOM full of incompetents vying for turf. You are never reason with the inmates at an asylum by playing by THEIR RULES.

The only way to do this is through drama and bad publicity. All you have to do is have the athletes in the event pledge not to run if Joseph Chirlee is not permitted to run, and make a big media show of it. When interviewed do not talk about the race only talk about the athletes solidarity for one of their brothers-in-sweat.

Once you've become top drawer fodder for ESPN, sports illustrated, and above-the-fold articles in newspapers you now own the USATF. If the USATF doesn't blink imagine the drama of 12 runners standing still at the start when the gun goes off, and the drone of clapping, from athletes and spectators alike, all standing in solidarity against the USATF.

You now have yourself a 'Rudy' moment and an international sports sensation, complete with a viral youtube video for documentation, and have exposed the USATF for what they are - a bunch of petty, small-minded, self-serving bastards.

You don't think that it will work? Try it,and don't back down.

We've had plenty of people who have competed in our nationals championships who were ineligible to represent the US in international competition. In the 1500m alone we have:

6 Bob Maplestone (GBR) 03:59.9

3 Bob Maplestone (GBR) 03:39.7

6 Dave Bailey (CAN) 03:44.8

1 Eamonn Coghlan (IRL) 03:42.4

4 Gail Hodgson (SAF) 03:51.9

1 Herb Elliott (AUS) 03:57.9 MRy

6 John Boulter (GBR) 03:40.4

5 John Davies (NZL) 04:00.2

4 Josef Odlozil (TCH) 03:57.7

2 Laszlo Tabori (HUN) 03:43.5

2 Merv Lincoln (AUS) 03:58.5

1 Merv Lincoln (AUS) 04:06.1 MRy

5 Neill Duggan (GBR) 04:02.2

2 Peter Kaal (SAF) 04:02.1

2 Peter Snell (NZL) 03:55.4

1 Rod Dixon (NZL) 03:37.5 MRm

2 Sydney Maree (SAF) 03:38.9

2 Wilson Waigwa (KEN) 03:37.3

That was different. Even when guys like Coghlan and Dixon won, they didn't alter the tenor of the race. It's really, really important that that not happen.

Military Coach: It is a fundamental principle of this country that citizenship confers the same rights and responsibilities regardless of how long one has held that citizenship. Chirlee is a US citizen. Therefore his citizenship cannot be used to keep him out of the race. End of story. The concerns of you, and others, about race tactics do not trump the rights of citizenship, and it's ludicrous to suggest that they do.

In fact, it's so ludicrous that I call troll.

it definitely makes sense to me to restrict the fields in national championship meets that are used for team qualifying in events where field sizes are limited. for example what if we had 6 non eligible citizens make the final in a championship 800...the other 2 in the final would be guaranteed a spot and we would have to pull the fastest non qualifier from the semi with a world standard? it would definitely throw things off. a good example is christian smith in 2008...the field was limited to 30 and he was 31 on the list and only got in the trials because alan webb decided to scratch and just run the mile, had there been 1 no eligible citizen ahead of him he would not have made the olympic team.

I do think there should be allowances though for meets such as this where the field size does not need to be limited, and all the athletes that would have a chance of representing our team at worlds will still be able to compete. i think that usatf took the mindset from what i was saying about the track events and applied it here without establishing good reasoning. while these qualifying meets are ultimately for the team selection, they are still a championship event and if an american can participate without compromising the qualification process, it is wrongful to deny them the opportunity. i think usatf needs to reevaluate their position on the impact they fear he could have on this race, as there will be many competitors with the same chances of qualifying for the team as him who could alter the tactics of the race...thats how racing goes

Kip Litton wrote:

Chirlee can not grow up to participate in the presidential race; thus, there seems to be a difference. Even a dumb troll knows that.

That's why in my original post I specified President and Vice-President as the only place (to my knowledge) where duration of citizenship is considered. It's the one exception.

Do you think competing in USATF championship races should be the other exception? If so, I suppose we'll need to amend the Constitution to add a clause saying, "And all competitors in USATF championships must have held US citizenship for however long a foreign organization deems necessary to compete in a global championship."

pretty good 800 guy wrote:

it definitely makes sense to me to restrict the fields in national championship meets that are used for team qualifying in events where field sizes are limited. for example what if we had 6 non eligible citizens make the final in a championship 800...the other 2 in the final would be guaranteed a spot and we would have to pull the fastest non qualifier from the semi with a world standard? it would definitely throw things off.

You're absolutely right in that (unlikely) scenario. But tough. You can't just set aside the rights of citizenship because they produce an outcome that people don't like or an outcome that doesn't make much sense.

In the US, you can't discriminate based on how long someone has been a citizen. If international bodies do so, that's their prerogative. But in the US, you can't (lone exception being Pres and VP). Here, citizen for a day or citizen for a century is the same. If that produces negative outcomes for track and field, then track and field is just going to have to suck it up.

What if the IAAF had a brain fart and declared that openly gay runners could not compete in world cross (like maybe if it was being held in Qatar). Would USATF then ban openly gay runners from competing at nationals?

It's the same logic as what they're doing now.

I agree but this could never happen.

Texas City Dyke wrote:

This is a stretch, but... There were several non-USATF runners in Saturday's USA Half Marathon Championships. They paid $1000 to line up and go. I didn't hear a peep from JG or any of the USATF staff, what's the difference?

I had the same first thought. Peachtree serves as the 10km championships all the time and that has a huge foreign field.