Marathon Training Thread - Week Ending 1/2

Pablo, Nole,

Thanks for the welcome back all.

Another - following Pablo's comment, I'm interested to hear whether you are specifically doing Canova-style training. I think his "specific phase" is pure gold.

brumrunner - is the 1/2M on the 6th March Bath by any chance? I have a place for that one but don't think I'll be race fit by then.

Abu - turns out it wasn't a stress fracture, just a regular break with displacement (3rd metatarsal) -

http://picasaweb.google.com/synaptology/BrokenFoot#5525607371766028402

TBH, I'm happier about that as a stress fracture would have implied the training load was too high, whereas in all likelihood this was just the result of stepping on a stone whilst running. Bone density scan came back normal so hopefully it was just a freak occurrence - fingers-crossed.

4TM - my money is on you destroying those goals. Go for it!

des wrote:

I can sleep easy knowing that my max week (122) was more than cadillac’s max day.

Agreed, my max week was also 122 (done twice) and my min week was 20 (the week after Twin Cities).

Jrunner - To answer your question from page 2...it depends on the day. I'm an engineer and there are some days where I'm out in the field, on my feet, in the sun all day. Those days are always mentally the toughest to run after work but for some reason, they always seem to be really good runs. I think I feel worse if I'm sitting on my ass staring at the computer all day than on my feet all day. I double nearly everyday...main run at 5:45am, other run at 6:00pm.

Abu - You seem to be one of the few that can run good times off (relatively) low mileage. Even the training you posted from your Detroit PR seemed low. You know how to get the most out of the mileage you run...and it obviously works for you. The only thing you can do now is to get better consistency (like not be injured leading up to a marathon) and you'll be golden.

4TM - My money is on you breaking 2:40 in Boston. You're a more experienced marathoner, you have the talent to do it, you've seen the course...and probably most importantly, you've seen what improper pacing can do to you on that course (I did the same thing). Here's hoping you can "retire" on top!

marmite wrote:

Another - following Pablo's comment, I'm interested to hear whether you are specifically doing Canova-style training. I think his "specific phase" is pure gold.

marmite - yes it is. My fear is that I am doing it too early for Boston. That was my reasoning by not choosing the faster paces for this first 7-week cycle (Though if that was the case I might have ran too fast on Sunday).

Out of all the workouts, the 6 x 1mile looks to be the toughest. And that's tomorrow. My legs are still a little sore from Sunday's run. Should be interesting.

Guys, I can not stop eating today. I've had 4 meals already and it's only 1pm. 100 mile weeks are catchin up to me.

pablo - It's interesting you say I lack strength as I feel the strongest I've ever felt. But you're right, that last mile needs some work and it's certainly not going to come from the endurance side. It's only a 5k. Anything you suggest? As you know, I've been doing at least 1 hill workout a week.

niarun - Thanks dude. Hope you are feeling better and your week is going better than last.

Vancy Pants - I see. Makes since. Keep crushing.

des - Thanks! Nice yearly total. Can't believe you haven't gone sub 16 in a 5k. Do you not race many? I'd say my beer mile is more impressive as well.

Lastly... GOOD LUCK TO ALL THE DISNEY GUYS!!! You guys are going to roll out. Who do we got going pablo, summit, and farm ?? Do we have everyone's bib numbers yet? Not sure if I will be able to track, but I'm sure as hell going to try. I am doing another RAGNAR Relay on Fri & Sat (Miami to Key West). Our team is trying to average sub-6mins. Should win pretty easily.

Pittsburgh May 15

Happy new year to everyone.

Finally got out on the road for an hour Sunday and did an easy six miles. Rest of the prior week was elliptical workouts. Other than a little (seemingly chronic) heel soreness, most aches and pains are gone. Looking forward to staying healthy and getting some miles in.

Good luck to you Disney guys. Weather should be nice!

NoleRunner26 wrote:

Guys, I can not stop eating today. I've had 4 meals already and it's only 1pm. 100 mile weeks are catchin up to me.

I've had those days before. It's best just to give in to the cravings, eat what you need to eat. It's possible you're bordering on being too thin, that's what I attributed it to when those days happen.

NoleRunner26 wrote:

pablo - It's interesting you say I lack strength as I feel the strongest I've ever felt. But you're right, that last mile needs some work and it's certainly not going to come from the endurance side. It's only a 5k. Anything you suggest? As you know, I've been doing at least 1 hill workout a week.

Don't take it the wrong way because you're certainly not doing anything wrong. But, I'd guess that 5:30 and slower pace feels fairly comfortable for you right now...that's what I call marathon strength. But, having the strengh to run sub-5:00 miles is a totally different animal....what I call speed strength. Maybe strength isn't the right word, because I use it in 2 different senses, but I think you get my point.

Workouts that help build my "speed strength" are mostly track workouts. Some of my personal favorites are:

3-4 miles of in/out 400's (running 70-75 for the "in", 90-95 for the "out"). Teaches your body to "recover" at 6:00 pace. Try it out, it gets difficult in a hurry.

ladder workouts - 400, 800, 1200, 1600, 1200, 800, 400 all with half distance slow jog recovery. Ideally, these would be run at a similar pace, so if you plan to hit the mile in 5:00, run the 4 @ 75, 8 @ 2:30, 12 @ 3:45, etc.

6 x mile w/ 90 seconds recovery done somewhere between 10k and half marathon pace.

Every other week or so run a 4-5 mile tempo around half marathon pace. A steady diet of these workouts should get you the strength you need to hold on to sub-5:00 pace.

Good luck @ Ragnar!

Damn dude, those workouts seem legit. Thanks! Here's my problem... I feel as though track workouts burn me out faster than any other type of training. And since the collegiate 5ks that I'm looking to jump in aren't until March, April and May, I'd rather not get on the track until maybe February.

I think what I'll do is adjust the first two workouts into fartleks and run those on the roads in Jan. I wouldn't mind jumping on the track for that 6 X mile in Jan tho. Then, come Feb I will start doing some of these workouts and gain some "speed strength." Thanks again man.

Goal Boston

M: 45 mn

T: 45 mn

W: 40 mn am / 12M steady (~6:00)

Th:55 mn

F: 40 mn am / 10M MP (~5:30)

S: 80 mn

Su:130 min

~ 90 miles

Pretty good week considering the blizzard on Su/M.

NoleRunner26 wrote:

Guys, I can not stop eating today. I've had 4 meals already and it's only 1pm. 100 mile weeks are catchin up to me.

des - Thanks! Nice yearly total. Can't believe you haven't gone sub 16 in a 5k. Do you not race many? I'd say my beer mile is more impressive as well.

I know what you mean about the eating. When I was hitting my highest mileage from Sept-Nov, I don't think there was ever a time when I was not hungry.

The 5k was probably my primary event if I had to pick one from my joke of a college running career. To put it lightly, the program and my coach’s training didn’t really work for me. I was injured so much (5 stress fractures in my first 3 years and then itband syndrome my senior year) that I never really was able to get in a solid period of consistent training. I graduated in ’08 with a 5k pr of 16:42 on the track from my sophomore year. After graduating and taking a few weeks to recover, I completely changed the way I trained (more miles, more tempo/threshold work, less intervals, less racing, and more recovery between workouts/hard efforts), and I turned my focus to longer distances. Finally able to train for an extended amount of time consistently, I surprised myself by running my first half marathon at a faster pace than my college 8k pr. I didn’t race any 5ks in 2009, but I’ve always had sub 16 as a goal in the back of my mind so last spring after running the nyc marathon in the fall, I decided to go after a sub 16 5k and a faster 10k pr. In the winter after avoiding any serious injuries for almost 2 years, I started having some knee issues (I think it was tendonitis, but I couldn’t really afford to go to the dr to get it checked out). I had to take a few days off here and there and I was not really able to train as hard or consistently as I wanted to. I dropped my pr slightly to 16:36 and I ran a 10k in 34:06, but my knee was still nagging me and my workouts and races were pretty inconsistent, so I opted to take a break, and start building up for a fall marathon.

Sub 16 is still a goal of mine, but given my better performances and preference for longer distances, I do not have any immediate plans to focus on it right now.

Race: Boston

Aim: under 2:45

Mon.—12mi.

Tues. –6mi.

Wed..—13mi. (6:55ave.)

Thurs.—0mi.

Fri.—18mi. (7:20ave.)

Sat.—12mi.

Sun.—morn. 14mi.; eve. 5mi.

Week: 80 mi.. A fair week given the soreness in the piriformis and inclement weather.

NoleRunner26 wrote:

Here's my problem... I feel as though track workouts burn me out faster than any other type of training. And since the collegiate 5ks that I'm looking to jump in aren't until March, April and May, I'd rather not get on the track until maybe February.

I was actually gonna add a "disclaimer" because I feel the exact same way. We always seemed to start the heavy workload of these workouts a few weeks too early in college, and sure enough, every season I would burn out a few weeks before I wanted to....BUT....I still ran some great races before that happened. I agree with you, don't start these now...if you want to last until May, I probably wouldn't do these until the end of Feb at the earliest, first week or two in March would be better though.

Marmite,

The half is Berkhamsted - I do it every year as my parents live there. Hilly but challenging. Always a good London warm up. Aiming for 74 this year.

What races have you got coming up?