can someone plz explain the point of double days to me?

Thanks for proving their point Ken Bob. You say different strokes for different folks. And you are 100% correct. But ask anyone that runs the 800 at UCLA right now and you will get the Igloi system, hook, line, and sinker. The people on Letsrun are trying to help this young lady who has a daughter at UCLA. And she is thoughtful enough to ask about double days and plyometrics, two things that Johnny Gray does not believe in. She can't say it but she implied it. The cookie cutter style of Igloi 800 meter training is not working for her daughter. And God bless this woman for coming to Letsrun to ask advice. I see nothing wrong with it at all. This isnt about Johnny Gray. Its about a girl that wants to learn about other ways to skin the cat. So stop the flaming and learn something!

Based on her post on the last page, she is 23, has no daughter, and is training independently of any college. She may be using the outdated slang term "mama" simply to mean "chick".

I know most elites run doubles but am not totally sure why. I think it's because you really need high volume to reach your potential, but just running 23 mile long runs every day would probably dull your speed. Peter Snell was pretty unique; most successful 800m runners do a lot less mileage than he did. I would think as an 800m runner, you would want one session to do hills/sprints/plyos with just enough of a warmup beforehand to stretch your muscles, and another session of a long run, possibly at a tempo run speed. And start off only doubling 3 days a week maybe, singles the other days.

My best advice is to pick up the book Better Training for Distance Runners and read the 800m training schedules. That book is co-written by Sebastian Coe's father and he seemed to have about the best understanding of the principles... and amazing results with Seb. As he says, you have to adapt the elite schedules to your own ability. Just learn the elements and principles.

Nabisco wrote:

wellwellwell....ok you ignorant sluts, i will tell you the truth about the worth of doubles...

improvement comes from recovery, better recovery means more improvement, therefore better performance.

doubles allow a runner to touch his aerobic system twice and recover twice, resulting in greater aerobic capacity/power

run 15 miles a day am 5 pm 10 and you will become a champion

I've noticed more than one post endorsing the second run as the more vigorous of the two. Is any training benefit lost by doing the longer one in the AM?

Honk for Bruins wrote:

UCLA has Johnny Gray as its 800 meter coach for men and women. He believes in the Igloi style of training that does not incorporate plyometrics or double days. Im told he wont budge on this and wont coach his athletes as individuals. So I applaud this woman for getting info on Letsrun to help her 800 meter daughter at UCLA. Good luck!

I’m a former teammate of Johnny Gray when he ran for SMTC. He ran doubles, but did not do polys or weights.

I also ran doubles.

You do not know what you are talking about

During a Lydiard-type aerobic base-building phase, single long runs in heart rate zone 3 (70-80% of max heart rate) are better than doubles because of sustained aerobic stimulus and stamina conditioning. After base-building phase, when you enter lactate buffering phase (introducing runs in zone 4, 80-90% of max heart rate), doubles are helpful to insert recovery runs between the harder lactate runs. And after lactate buffering phase, when you enter race peaking phase (introducing speed work in zone 4, 90-95% of max heart rate), doubles allow the speed sessions to be balanced with recover runs.

FogRunner

Ummmm. The lady doesn't have a daughter that goes to UCLA, she said so herself on page 2.

If this is some sort of circuitous trolling attempt to bring about trash talk on Johnny Gray....well done. If not, I suggest that you guys check your reading comprehension skills.

I do 20 minutes the morning before workouts to loosen up, so I'm not feeling rusty when it comes time to throw down. This is just me personally.

Doubles work better for me and nearly everyone I know. I have tried triples but noticed no improvement. I think I was not even cleaner for three showers a day. Doubles are better even when you are old like me.

I suppose doubles work because they bring your blood pressure, body temp, up to maximum twice. And I think there is something to the "not rusty" idea—that you are somewhat "warmed up or stretched out" because you were running more recently than 24 hours ago.

Or you double your chances of having a good run since only the good ones help and the bad ones don't do anything.

I have never heard that anyone has studied doubles in a controlled way in a lengthy experiment nor have I heard any physiological explanation.

But long experience gives me no doubt that doubles work. It would be foolish to expect that you could be the best runner you could be without running twice a day.

Tom

Derderian wrote:

Doubles work better for me and nearly everyone I know. I have tried triples but noticed no improvement. I think I was not even cleaner for three showers a day. Doubles are better even when you are old like me.

how old are you?

Does doing doubles make sense if it means getting in less sleep? If I could only squeeze 4-6 mile in the morning is it worth it or is it better to just get the extra sleep?

if you really dont have time to go to sleep 45 minutes earlier and get up and run it's probably not worth the lost sleep. i do my second run at night sometimes if I don't feel like waking up early enough to do 2 before dinner