You dont get it. My money management portfolio which consist of 65% equities and 35% cash / bonds is only a very small portion of my total investment portfolio. I'm also long provivate equity and real estate (aside from a house). My total portfolio is doing very well this year...certianly better than 10%.
I call BS on your returns. The S&P's performance from 2003-09 (including dividends reinvested) was 28.7% in '03, 10.9% in '04, 4.9% on '05, 15.8% in '06, 5.5% in '07, (37.0%) in '08 and 26.4% in '09. If we are to believe your annual numbers, then you thoroughly outgained the market in '03, '04, and '05, significantly outgained the market in '09, and marginally outgained the market in '06 and '07. '08 is the only year you didn't beat the market and you barely missed. Kind of find your suppossed performance hard to believe.....
Flagpole wrote:
Well, my "buy and hold" strategy (which isn't exactly that) has done me well since 1989. I've still made over 10% annually as an average, and that's enough to build serious money. Even the 2000s have been good to me...starting off bad early on, but then 43% gain in 2003, 20+% gain in 2004, 2005, 2006, 8.7% gain in 2007, 39% LOSS in 2008, 34.7% GAIN in 2009, and so far in 2010 I'm up 9.4%. With very little effort on my part, my investments are making decent returns. Why invest another way that takes way more time and effort and statistically doesn't do as well? I will invest in individual stocks for fun once my house is paid off (while still putting money in retirement accounts and staying completely debt free), but as my main source of wealth building? Nah.
flip side wrote:Well, here is another viewpoint about the stock market's valuation and direction. I know you will never acknowledge that you have anything to learn from anyone else - but you should at least consider other perspectives once in a while.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/11/pf/investing/stocks_earnings.fortune/index.htmPersonally, I think the strategy of buy and holding most of a portfolio in index funds makes no sense in today's market. Why spend 30 or 40 years gradually accumulating wealth and then squander the opportunity to maximize the returns of that investment. But to each his/her own.
BS Detector V2 wrote:
I call BS on your returns. The S&P's performance from 2003-09 (including dividends reinvested) was 28.7% in '03, 10.9% in '04, 4.9% on '05, 15.8% in '06, 5.5% in '07, (37.0%) in '08 and 26.4% in '09. If we are to believe your annual numbers, then you thoroughly outgained the market in '03, '04, and '05, significantly outgained the market in '09, and marginally outgained the market in '06 and '07. '08 is the only year you didn't beat the market and you barely missed. Kind of find your suppossed performance hard to believe.....
Sorry if it's hard to believe, but my spreadsheet doesn't lie. When 2009 ended, I started a thread here asking what others got in 2009, and my 34.7% was not even the highest.
Wall Street Strategist wrote:
You dont get it. My money management portfolio which consist of 65% equities and 35% cash / bonds is only a very small portion of my total investment portfolio. I'm also long provivate equity and real estate (aside from a house). My total portfolio is doing very well this year...certianly better than 10%.
No. I get it. I just don't see why you'd want to drag your other investments down with such a large percentage of the total in cash and bonds. Especially when you're young. Unless of course that is only 3% of your total, but then really who cares what the return on that is...and you seemed to.
So today (10-13-10), before the opening bell, there are STRONG earning reports from JP Morgan Chase and Intel and also increased consumer confidence from the Chinese trade report.
Can't just say this market run-up is not fueled at least a little bit by corporate earnings.
The why do you list specific numbers for your returns in '03, and '07-'10 but vagely list that you made 20%+ each year from '04-'06? If you know your exact returns for some years why don't you know them for others? I'll tell you why....b/c you are clearly caught up in a lie....
Flagpole wrote:
BS Detector V2 wrote:I call BS on your returns. The S&P's performance from 2003-09 (including dividends reinvested) was 28.7% in '03, 10.9% in '04, 4.9% on '05, 15.8% in '06, 5.5% in '07, (37.0%) in '08 and 26.4% in '09. If we are to believe your annual numbers, then you thoroughly outgained the market in '03, '04, and '05, significantly outgained the market in '09, and marginally outgained the market in '06 and '07. '08 is the only year you didn't beat the market and you barely missed. Kind of find your suppossed performance hard to believe.....
Sorry if it's hard to believe, but my spreadsheet doesn't lie. When 2009 ended, I started a thread here asking what others got in 2009, and my 34.7% was not even the highest.
Ha! They are just all really close, and just barely above 20%, so I was saving a small amount of time by not typing them all out. But, don't worry about what I made...others made more than I did...go make your own money; after all, your retirement won't be set based on what you make compared to me...do better or worse, it doesn't matter. The ONLY thing that matters is if you make enough to retire comfortably on.
BS Detector V2 wrote:
The why do you list specific numbers for your returns in '03, and '07-'10 but vagely list that you made 20%+ each year from '04-'06? If you know your exact returns for some years why don't you know them for others?
I'll tell you why....b/c you are clearly caught up in a lie....
Flagpole wrote:Sorry if it's hard to believe, but my spreadsheet doesn't lie. When 2009 ended, I started a thread here asking what others got in 2009, and my 34.7% was not even the highest.
Flag might be counting the money he's contributing each year in his "returns".
fanotheflag wrote:
Flag might be counting the money he's contributing each year in his "returns".
Nope.
I'm really curious how a buy and hold investor so thoroughly outperforms the market almost year after year. Doesn't make much sense to me. I still call BS.
Flagpole wrote:
Ha! They are just all really close, and just barely above 20%, so I was saving a small amount of time by not typing them all out. But, don't worry about what I made...others made more than I did...go make your own money; after all, your retirement won't be set based on what you make compared to me...do better or worse, it doesn't matter. The ONLY thing that matters is if you make enough to retire comfortably on.
BS Detector V2 wrote:The why do you list specific numbers for your returns in '03, and '07-'10 but vagely list that you made 20%+ each year from '04-'06? If you know your exact returns for some years why don't you know them for others?
I'll tell you why....b/c you are clearly caught up in a lie....
Yeah the wall street mucky mucks made $144B in bonuses.
Great to buy stocks WHEN YOU HAVE MONEY.
[quote]BS Detector V2 wrote:
I'm really curious how a buy and hold investor so thoroughly outperforms the market almost year after year. Doesn't make much sense to me. I still call BS.
[quote]
It's really easy dude. There's this thing called the Internet where anyone can say anything and offer no proof.
Anyway, I am not that impressed by FP's returns. I've made:
2000 17.6%
2001 26.9%
2002 84.1%
2003 8.3%
2004 37.6%
2005 19.1%
2006 43.2%
2007 24.8%
2008 37.7%
2009 62.0%
I'm pretty sure I'm ahead by a pretty wide margin.
I am NOT just buy and hold. I make changes one or two times a year and put in extra money when I think the market is down. Also, I go with good companies who have done me right -- longest with Vanguard but Fidelity too.
BS Detector V2 wrote:
I'm really curious how a buy and hold investor so thoroughly outperforms the market almost year after year. Doesn't make much sense to me. I still call BS.
Flagpole wrote:Ha! They are just all really close, and just barely above 20%, so I was saving a small amount of time by not typing them all out. But, don't worry about what I made...others made more than I did...go make your own money; after all, your retirement won't be set based on what you make compared to me...do better or worse, it doesn't matter. The ONLY thing that matters is if you make enough to retire comfortably on.
Dow up 214 to 11,429 today thus far.