Could I break 33 mins. in the 10k based on this workout

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  • HotPanOliveOil
    9 years ago 10/16/2010 6:21pm CDT
    re: dude...!
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    dude...! wrote:

    I'd ditch the 8 x 1k with 60s float and run 5 x 1k HARD with 4:00 standing rest, trying to keep them all close to the same pace, maybe starting at 3:05 and seeing if you edge to 3:00 flat (or maybe a hair quicker) on the last one.


    Thanks for the suggestion. Its funny you mentioned that workout, because I originally had 6 X 1k @ 5kish pace planned. I had my rest at 2:00, so your workout is faster but with longer rest.

    I like your idea because I can get the legs moving fast and get my HR up to its max. I may just make that change....thanks dude
  • easy
    9 years ago 10/17/2010 10:47am CDT
    re: dude...!
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    dude...! wrote:


    I'm also interested to know where hotpan plans to race. From his description of likely competition, I'm guessing somewhere around the GTA, not BC, but could be something around Vancouver I suppose.

    There's no flood of 35-36 guys in Vancouver except in one race. And it's not in the late fall.
  • J.R.
    9 years ago 10/17/2010 4:25pm CDT
    re: easy
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    If you're sold on sticking with 1k's, probably because longer reps are too hard for you, then I'd only do one of them, and I agree with taking 400 jogs between reps. Salazar used to run 5 or 6x mile with slow 1/4 mile jogs in 3 minutes after each, which is a really good session for 10k. He ran them at the pace of his 10k's.

    Since you're not ready for that, perhaps run 6x 1200 with 400 jogs, or 4/1/2/3k with 400 jogs.

    Longer reps are better "indicator" workouts for a reason, because they prepare you for racing the event. Short reps do not do that as well, unless you're taking a really fast jog between reps, but then you might as well run longer reps anyway. Longer reps are better because you're running farther with each rep, and you're getting enough but not too much rest through the session.
  • Running Coach
    registered
    9 years ago 10/19/2010 9:28am CDT
    re: HotPanOliveOil
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    6 x 1k isn't the best race predictor for a 10k. 4 x 1.5 miles or better 3 x 2 miles works well as the longer repeats will test your ability to hold your anaerobic threshold. 90 second rest interval is max.

    For the 2 mile repeats, your pace target is 10:36. Are you there? If not, work the 1.5 mile repeats at 7:57 until you can achieve that and then push it to 2 miles. obviously, what you do on your other days will facilitate this as well.

    Good luck!

    Coach Ken

    http://www.5speedrunning.com
  • Mike 32 ys runner
    9 years ago 10/19/2010 5:39pm CDT
    re: running coach
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    Coach what are your best times as a master runner? Do you coach some faster runners then what we see
  • FOXX NEWS
    9 years ago 10/19/2010 6:51pm CDT
    re: running coach
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    Coach Ken ran a 18:40/5k and he is 42 years old.
  • Running Coach
    registered
    9 years ago 10/19/2010 8:00pm CDT
    re: Mike 32 ys runner
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    yes, I'm consistently in the 18-19 5k range on the 20 miles per week that I have time to run. coaching, wife, kids, etc get the rest of my time.

    I do coach beginners to advanced athletes. Since you asked, here's an email from a "faster" runner this last Sunday.

    "The marathon went way better than I expected, especially after seeing how hilly the course was. Got my PR in 2:38:22 and placed 2nd. Couldn't be happier. I can't wait to get started, cause I know I have tons of room for improvement, especially since I PR'd on such an intense course. Thanks for getting me here."

    Enough about me. What I want to know is how I can help Lets Runners. what kind of training is your community looking for? Form and skill work? Training social platform? Igloi interval work? Let me know as I want to produce relevant training content that you want and will be helpful to you.
  • troll-O-meter
    registered
    9 years ago 10/19/2010 8:50pm CDT
    re: running coach
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    running coach wrote: yes, I'm consistently in the 18-19 5k range on the 20 miles per week that I have time to run. coaching, wife, kids, etc get the rest of my time.

    I do coach beginners to advanced athletes. Since you asked, here's an email from a "faster" runner this last Sunday.

    "The marathon went way better than I expected, especially after seeing how hilly the course was. Got my PR in 2:38:22 and placed 2nd. Couldn't be happier. I can't wait to get started, cause I know I have tons of room for improvement, especially since I PR'd on such an intense course. Thanks for getting me here."

    Enough about me. What I want to know is how I can help Lets Runners. what kind of training is your community looking for? Form and skill work? Training social platform? Igloi interval work? Let me know as I want to produce relevant training content that you want and will be helpful to you.
    Nicely played. 8/10
  • HotPanOliveOil
    9 years ago 10/20/2010 7:31pm CDT
    re: troll-o-meter
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    Thought I would update my progress for anyone interested. Today I dat my third last workout - a 6 X 1k with 3:00 rest. The idea was to run 3-5k pace, with the goal being to start @ 3:05 and try to get a little faster. Here is how it went:

    20 min. warm up/cool down

    1. 3:03
    2. 3:10 (into wind)
    3. 3:05
    4. 3:07
    5. 3:04
    6. 3:08

    I havent done this kind of workout in awhile so I thought it went well, all things considered.
  • dude...!
    9 years ago 10/20/2010 9:11pm CDT
    re: HotPanOliveOil
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    I find it irritating that you never say straight up what kind of rest you took. 3:00 standing is completely different than 3:00 slow jog or 3:00 float (at a brisk pace). The style and duration of rest is just as important as the length, number and pace of repeats in defining the type and difficulty of a workout.

    Assuming this was 3:00 standing rest, this session would be a good indicator of 3k pace if you'd done 5 as suggested, but since you did 6, I'd guess 3k pace to be just a hair quicker - say maybe 3:03-04.

    I'd guess this indicates ` 33:10-20 on the track in perfect conditions, or 33:30-45 on a typical decent road course.

    If it was a float jog recovery, I'd be guessing faster.

    Good luck!
  • Give us more
    9 years ago 10/20/2010 9:31pm CDT
    re: running coach
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    Post your best times from 200m up to the Marathon. Coach name some runners with fast times that you coach.
  • sisyphus
    registered
    9 years ago 10/20/2010 9:45pm CDT
    re: HotPanOliveOil
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    Looks like a quality workout to me. I'm a little different than a lot of coaches but I'd warn against using your fitness for great workouts instead of races.
  • HotPanOliveOil
    9 years ago 10/20/2010 10:07pm CDT
    re: dude...!
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    dude...! wrote:

    I find it irritating that you never say straight up what kind of rest you took. 3:00 standing is completely different than 3:00 slow jog or 3:00 float (at a brisk pace). The style and duration of rest is just as important as the length, number and pace of repeats in defining the type and difficulty of a workout.

    Sorry about that. The rest was standing for one minute, then 2 mins. of easy jogging. I should also mention that this workout was done on the roads - there were a couple of small hills, but it was relatively flat. It was also windy which is why the second repeat was slower.

    I think this workout showed me I need more of this type of workout - I didnt feel comfortable running at 3:05 pace, as if my legs didnt feel coordinated. I think this was a mistake in my buildup to this race.
  • HotPanOliveOil
    9 years ago 10/20/2010 10:14pm CDT
    re: sisyphus
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    sisyphus wrote:

    Looks like a quality workout to me. I'm a little different than a lot of coaches but I'd warn against using your fitness for great workouts instead of races.

    I agree....my objective today was to get my legs moving at faster than my race pace....which I hope will make 3:18-3:20 pace feel easier.

    In the past Ive always tried to run all my workouts at my goal race pace....as I felt this was the best way to train the body to become accustomed to the pace. Im taking a different approach for awhile incorporating more workouts at faster than goal 10k pace (e.g. 3-5k pace). Its a bit of an experiment and we'll see how it works.

    This was hard workout for me as my breathing was far more laboured than Im used to....the last couple of repeats I was bent over for several seconds sucking some wind
  • sisyphus
    registered
    9 years ago 10/20/2010 10:31pm CDT
    re: HotPanOliveOil
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    I know tons of people who run well with workouts like that. Myself included when I was younger. These days I would have scheduled that further out from the race or only done 4. That being said, one of my teams got carried away the week of a national meet and hammered a workout way too hard a few years ago and every one PRd that weekend. I'd certainly say you have the fitness. I hope you get a good day for the race, nice temp, little to no wind.
  • dude...!
    9 years ago 10/20/2010 11:33pm CDT
    re: HotPanOliveOil
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    HotPanOliveOil wrote:This was hard workout for me as my breathing was far more laboured than Im used to....the last couple of repeats I was bent over for several seconds sucking some wind
    This was the intent for this session when I suggested it, although I suggested 5, not 6, and 3:00 standing, not a combination of standing and jogging. I agree with sisyphus that not all sessions should be all out like this. But occasionally, this kind of hard work is important, particularly for a guy who claims to be better with endurance than speed. If that is truly the case, it's hard for you to do a session "too hard," unlike someone built more for speed. For that kind of runner, going to the bottom of the well outside of races is rarely a good idea.

    Again, good luck. When do you race again?
  • ukathleticscoach
    registered
    9 years ago 10/21/2010 4:17am CDT
    re: HotPanOliveOil
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    So have you run the race?
  • HotPanOliveOil
    9 years ago 10/21/2010 8:19am CDT
    re: dude...!
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    dude...! wrote:

    This was the intent for this session when I suggested it, although I suggested 5, not 6, and 3:00 standing, not a combination of standing and jogging. I agree with sisyphus that not all sessions should be all out like this. But occasionally, this kind of hard work is important, particularly for a guy who claims to be better with endurance than speed. If that is truly the case, it's hard for you to do a session "too hard," unlike someone built more for speed. Again, good luck. When do you race again?

    Thanks for advice... I think for my next cycle Ill add some more sessions like this one, to add a different training stimulus to my schedule.

    I am definitely not a speed guy, so I think this workout has the added benefit of helping me with efficiency.

    When you suggested this workout, did you mean for it to be "all out"? If that was the case I could have done the repeats a bit faster....I was close to all out, but was holding back a touch (e.g. trying to keep my form and stay controlled, etc.). I think this has been drilled into my head through readin other threads where everyone warns against going to hard in workouts.

    When you say this kind of work should be done occasionally, what do you mean by this? Once a week while preparing for competition? Or occasionally throughout the entire training cycle? Thanks
  • HotPanOliveOil
    9 years ago 10/21/2010 8:20am CDT
    re: dude...!
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    dude...! wrote:

    Again, good luck. When do you race again?

    Sorry, I run the race on Oct.31st
  • double take
    9 years ago 10/21/2010 10:05am CDT
    re: HotPanOliveOil
    Forum Index
    HotPanOliveOil wrote:

    Thought I would update my progress for anyone interested. Today I dat my third last workout - a 6 X 1k with 3:00 rest. The idea was to run 3-5k pace, with the goal being to start @ 3:05 and try to get a little faster. Here is how it went:

    20 min. warm up/cool down

    1. 3:03
    2. 3:10 (into wind)
    3. 3:05
    4. 3:07
    5. 3:04
    6. 3:08

    I havent done this kind of workout in awhile so I thought it went well, all things considered.

    You've run 15:30 for 5k? In that case you should break 32 easily. My prediction is 36-37 minutes.