1976 NCAA XC nationals grumblefest

The differences between the 1976 site in Denton and the 1975 site at Penn State could not have been more stark. Flat baked surface compared to a rolling and hilly landscape.

Love XC wrote:

The differences between the 1976 site in Denton and the 1975 site at Penn State could not have been more stark. Flat baked surface compared to a rolling and hilly landscape.

and green.

If you took a color phtograph at Denton you'd think it was sepia-toned.

I was a student at the University of Illinois during Craig Virgin's four years there. Still have Champaign-Urbana News Gazette articles authored by David Woods from that era.

One of Virgin's comments afterwards was, "I didn't know you could run a cross country race that fast!"

1976 was the first year NCAA's went to 10k. No 10k xc race anywhere has ever come close to 28:06.

However, one must wonder how fast Sam Chelanga would have run last fall if NCAA's had been held on the North Texas State course.

Stan Ford Jr.

Stan Ford Jr. wrote:

I was a student at the University of Illinois during Craig Virgin's four years there. Still have Champaign-Urbana News Gazette articles authored by David Woods from that era.

One of Virgin's comments afterwards was, "I didn't know you could run a cross country race that fast!"

1976 was the first year NCAA's went to 10k. No 10k xc race anywhere has ever come close to 28:06.

However, one must wonder how fast Sam Chelanga would have run last fall if NCAA's had been held on the North Texas State course.

Stan Ford Jr.

Interesting question. Surely Chelanga with his front running style in CC would have run fast in Denton - but could last years field have created the depth that was seen in the 76 race? Maybe Malmo and Hodgie-San could chime in. Personally Im not sure the 09 bunch would have committed to the race/pace as so many did en-mass in 76.

Stan Ford Jr. wrote:

However, one must wonder how fast Sam Chelanga would have run last fall if NCAA's had been held on the North Texas State course.

Actually, one must wonder how fast Henry Rono could have run at night under the lights, at Stanford, with rabbits?

Rono's WRs

13:08.1 Berkeley CA 4/8/78 (2:42.0, 2:36.0, 2:39.5, 2:37.0, 2:33.9)

8:05.4h Seattle WA 5/13/78

27:22.47 Wien, AUT 6/11/78 13:49.0 / 13:33.4 = 27:22.4 (2:36.9)

7:32.1h Oslo NOR 6/27/78

13:06.20 Knarvik, NOR 9/13/81 (2:38.5, 2:38.5, 2:38.0, 2:38.0, 2:33.2)

5k record during a tri-meet in Berkeley. winning by 50seconds.

steeple record in the rain in Seattle. 500 cold and brave souls watched the race.

10k conducted after a soccer game

WR Berkeley (all splits 400 meters)

1:07 (67)

2:10 (63)

3:14 (64)

4:15 (61) 1600m

5:18 (63)

6:20 (62)

7:24 (64)

8:28 (64) 3200m

9:31 (63)

10:35 (64)

11:38 (63)

12:09 (31) 4600m

13:08 (59.4)

13;04 for sure

Interesting question. Surely Chelanga with his front running style in CC would have run fast in Denton - but could last years field have created the depth that was seen in the 76 race? Maybe Malmo and Hodgie-San could chime in. Personally Im not sure the 09 bunch would have committed to the race/pace as so many did en-mass in 76.[/quote]

For myself I felt like I was swept along in a very fast moving pack, similar to a track race.

There was not all the double clutching, gear changes that I was used to in running xc courses in the northeast.

Stan Ford Jr. wrote:

However, one must wonder how fast Sam Chelanga would have run last fall if NCAA's had been held on the North Texas State course.

malmo wrote:

Actually, one must wonder how fast Henry Rono could have run at night under the lights, at Stanford, with rabbits?

Chelanga

3000m 7:57.85

5000m 13:19.79

10000m 27:08.39

5000m

13:19.79i 3 Fayetteville AR 13 Feb 2009

13:24.73 3 New York NY 31 May 2008

13:28.31 3rA Stanford CA 2 May 2009

13:30.77 8 New York NY 30 May 2009

13:37.01i 2 Fayetteville AR 12 Mar 2010

13:44.16i 1 Fayetteville AR 12 Feb 2010

13:44.57i 2 College Station TX 13 Mar 2009

13:45.35 2 Eugene OR 12 Jun 2010

13:46.39i 2 Boston MA 4 Mar 2007

13:47.39i 4 Fayetteville AR 9 Mar 2007

10000m

27:08.39 3 Jordan Stanford CA 1 May 2010

27:28.48 1 Hamilton Berkeley CA 24 Apr 2009

28:15.99 1r2 Jordan Stanford CA 4 May 2008

28:35.40 3 NCAA Fayetteville AR 11 Jun 2009

28:37.40 1 NCAA Eugene OR 10 Jun 2010

Rono

3000m 7:32.1 WR

3000m sc 8:05.4 WR

5000m 13:06.2 WR

10000m 27:22.47 WR

5000m

13:06.20 1 Knarvik 13 Sep 1981

13:08.4h 1 Berkeley CA 8 Apr 1978

13:08.97 1 DNG Stockholm 6 Jul 1982

13:12.15 1 Koblenz 26 Aug 1981

13:12.34 1 London 11 Sep 1981

13:12.47 3 Rieti 9 Sep 1981

10000m

27:22.47 1 Wien 11 Jun 1978

27:29.90 1 Eugene OR 10 Apr 1982

27:31.68 1 Melbourne 6 Feb 1980

27:37.08 2 London 9 Sep 1977

27:40.78 1 Bruxelles 28 Aug 1981

27:46.6h 1 Corvallis OR 19 May 1978

27:48.6h 1 Auckland 28 Jan 1978

27:53.79 1 London 9 Sep 1978

27:58.9h 1 Al Jazair 20 Jul 1978

27:59.93 4 Firenze 25 May 1982

whoareu wrote:

Interesting question. Surely Chelanga with his front running style in CC would have run fast in Denton - but could last years field have created the depth that was seen in the 76 race? Maybe Malmo and Hodgie-San could chime in. Personally Im not sure the 09 bunch would have committed to the race/pace as so many did en-mass in 76.

I was undefeated going into that race, winning each race with relentless front-running, but this race was something else. From the gun the pace was hell-bent-for-leather.

Denton TX is in the middle of nowhere, but there was no wind at all to bunch things up. I think the first straightaway was over a mile long before you made your first turn (right) then over the one small hill on the course. Other than that I don't remember anything about that race other than a blur of bodies and brown grass.

Two 10k world record holders (Kimombwa and Rono) and two two-time World Cross Champs (Treacy and Virgin). The rabbit was Josh Kimeto, two-time NCAA 5000m champ.

This photo gives you a feel for the course.

Rono

3000m 7:32.1 WR

3000m sc 8:05.4 WR

5000m 13:06.2 WR

10000m 27:22.47 WR

5000m

13:06.20 1 Knarvik 13 Sep 1981

13:08.4h 1 Berkeley CA 8 Apr 1978

13:08.97 1 DNG Stockholm 6 Jul 1982

13:12.15 1 Koblenz 26 Aug 1981

13:12.34 1 London 11 Sep 1981

13:12.47 3 Rieti 9 Sep 1981

10000m

27:22.47 1 Wien 11 Jun 1978

27:29.90 1 Eugene OR 10 Apr 1982

27:31.68 1 Melbourne 6 Feb 1980

27:37.08 2 London 9 Sep 1977

27:40.78 1 Bruxelles 28 Aug 1981

27:46.6h 1 Corvallis OR 19 May 1978

27:48.6h 1 Auckland 28 Jan 1978

27:53.79 1 London 9 Sep 1978

27:58.9h 1 Al Jazair 20 Jul 1978

27:59.93 4 Firenze 25 May 1982[/quote]

Look at the schedule Rono raced in 81, unbelievable!!

Aug. 26 13:12.15

28 27:40.78

Sept. 9 13:12.47

11 13:12.34

13 13:06.20

imagine what if? wrote:

Look at the schedule Rono raced in 81, unbelievable!!

Aug. 26 13:12.15

28 27:40.78

Sept. 9 13:12.47

11 13:12.34

13 13:06.20

You can videos of some of those races here.

Malmo captures it well "a blur of bodies and brown grass" - you just knew you were sending your body somewhere where it had not been before and there wasnt a damned thing you could do about it -- I can remember thinking how the hell can I be running this fast and be this far back - something aint right !

Damn, what a field.

Who was 16th?

malmo what was your first mile in?

Ghost of Ashenfelter wrote:

Damn, what a field.

Who was 16th?

It's in the results -- Terry Williams, Oregon

ishuffle wrote:

malmo what was your first mile in?

I have no idea.

NCAA News:

Check out page 7:

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/NCAANewsArchive/1976/19761201.pdf

To those in the know; who set up that cross-country course in TX? Was Jack Daniels the coach at N,Tx in 1976?

As for the 1st mile split question; I have a friend who said he hit 4;30 first mile finished mid 30 minutes; said he went into the race thinking he could be All-American as a frosh that race, (HS pr of 9;14 two mile)!!

There were 12 2:11 or faster marathoners in the list that malmo made, and Hunt and Plas ran 2:12 ... not to mention about 11 Americans who set a road or track national record later in their career. Olympic medalists, about 9 American Olympic team members, WR holders ....

My god what an amazing collection of talent!!

I only ran in one other race that was nearly as crazy as this one. That was the 1981 World Champs in Madrid where the US team finished second to Ethiopia. The Ethiopians took off early thinking they were on the finish lap and it took it out of everyone. Malmo still has a blister on his thumb from playing PacMan before the race. It's also interesting that the American Road 10k record progression is completely represented in this race: Greg Meyer 28:24, Thom Hunt 28:12, Craig Virgin 28:02, Alberto Salazar 27:58, Marc Nenow 27:48. I may have some of the times wrong, but you get the idea.