ovett was 101% racer, with a win-streak over 1500 never to be equalled
however, when coe came along & broke the wrs, ovett's was seen as 2nd best & was forced to chase the clock
wheating's team are no fools
you can't be a "pure racer" in this day & age even if you get all the golds going - look at kiprop - he's won the big gold & apart from berlin, hasn't really lost a 1500/mile in a coupla years, but he won't get "full" respect as his best is no better than about 3'31, & he won't do so until he puts a 3'29 next to his name ( albeit he can live off that 1'43.17 for a long time - can always claim that he is capable of 3'28 off that but can't get right race & it's a good claim )
in this day & age, you need the clockings as well as metalware
Wheating!!! holy crap - medal threat
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If Wheating had ended the season last week, there would be a lot of doubt as to his basic speed for the 800. Now he ends not only knowing that he has the tools, but hungry to go after the Big Two (Kaki/Rudisha)
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lol wow he be shotting dust in the peoples faces
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Yuune wrote:
lol wow he be shotting dust in the peoples faces
? wow. -
ventolin^3 wrote:
ovett was 101% racer, with a win-streak over 1500 never to be equalled
however, when coe came along & broke the wrs, ovett's was seen as 2nd best & was forced to chase the clock
wheating's team are no fools
you can't be a "pure racer" in this day & age even if you get all the golds going - look at kiprop - he's won the big gold & apart from berlin, hasn't really lost a 1500/mile in a coupla years, but he won't get "full" respect as his best is no better than about 3'31, & he won't do so until he puts a 3'29 next to his name ( albeit he can live off that 1'43.17 for a long time - can always claim that he is capable of 3'28 off that but can't get right race & it's a good claim )
in this day & age, you need the clockings as well as metalware
True but Wheating isn't the fastest or the best racer in the world for 800 yet. Being in an 800 with Rudisha will likely draw the fastest Wheating is capable of next summer, as long as Wheating gets out and up into 2nd or 3rd by 400. Love to see Wheating go out like he did last week in a race with both Kaki and Rudisha.
Also looking forward to how he races the 1500/mile next year. I think he could run pretty close to the level Laalou did this year when he's a little fresher and has the mind for it. -
ventolin^3 wrote:
ovett was 101% racer
What was the other -1%? -
dnixon wrote:
Whoever said earlier that Wheating ran a great tactical race is wrong. Watch the video. He still spends far too much time in the outer edge of lane 2, even around the bends, wasting valuable time and energy. I'm certain that he actually covered 800m FASTER than did Kaki, who hugged the curb for the duration of the race. It's just that Wheating ended up running FARTHER because of his lane position.
this is very right - wheating ran in lane two almost the whole race. That is at least 12 meters, no? The guy gets in the right race, runs on the rail the whole way, he runs 1:42x -
Andrew needs to find a road 800 and kill it.
agip wrote:
dnixon wrote:
Whoever said earlier that Wheating ran a great tactical race is wrong. Watch the video. He still spends far too much time in the outer edge of lane 2, even around the bends, wasting valuable time and energy. I'm certain that he actually covered 800m FASTER than did Kaki, who hugged the curb for the duration of the race. It's just that Wheating ended up running FARTHER because of his lane position.
this is very right - wheating ran in lane two almost the whole race. That is at least 12 meters, no? The guy gets in the right race, runs on the rail the whole way, he runs 1:42x -
If he runs the rail the whole way, he gets backed up into slower runners at some point and then has to find a way to get his long body outside to pass....he runs a shorter distance on the rail, but he runs a 1:46.
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Pumped Full of Wheatings wrote:
If he runs the rail the whole way, he gets backed up into slower runners at some point and then has to find a way to get his long body outside to pass....he runs a shorter distance on the rail, but he runs a 1:46.
well yes, That's why I said 'he gets in the right race...'
was it vesey last year who somehow managed to move from last to first on the rail? More luck than skill, but that's what has to happen here for Wheating.
Unless he decides to front run for once. not a crazy idea for a wildly improving 23 year old. -
agip wrote:
dnixon wrote:
Whoever said earlier that Wheating ran a great tactical race is wrong. Watch the video. He still spends far too much time in the outer edge of lane 2, even around the bends, wasting valuable time and energy. I'm certain that he actually covered 800m FASTER than did Kaki, who hugged the curb for the duration of the race. It's just that Wheating ended up running FARTHER because of his lane position.
this is very right - wheating ran in lane two almost the whole race. That is at least 12 meters, no? The guy gets in the right race, runs on the rail the whole way, he runs 1:42x
Running in lane 2 on the straights doesn't mean he's going to run further!
He runs on the line with lane 2 for much of the first and some of the last bend, but rarely goes into lane 2 for those bends. He is in lane 1, albeit not tight on the rails, for almost all the second bend between 400 and 500m.
Had he run ALL 3 bends entirely in lane 2 that would be 10.5m (3.5m x 3). He did not. He probably ran about 807m in total. Certainly not 812m.
That would equate to about a 1:43.7 if he'd run all in lane 1. That's still a long way off 1:42.
Furthermore, how many top guys in a race ever run exactly 800m? V. few!
You could do the same for almost every athlete in every race.
I think Wheating is an excellent runner and I look forward to seeing him improve and hopefully win medals in the years to come, but it's far too premature and inaccurate to say he'd have run 1:42 if he'd not run wide. -
Perhaps not in the 800, but the 1500; obviously Wheating can be a very good 800m runner, but his lack of raw 400m speed will be limiting factor in how far he goes. I think as he gets stronger and understands the event more, he going to get better, perhaps down into the high 1:43s which could make you a medal threat if you just happen to run your best race in a championship.
A medal threat in the 1500 is someone who can run 3 sub 3:40s in about an 8 day period and in the third race be able to kick (accelerate to an all out sprint the last 100m) off of a 3:34 pace, which means you need to be legit 3:30 guy in an honest race...this is where Wheating is right now. There are about 5 other athletes who fall in this category, which statistically makes Wheating a definite medal threat. -
Am I the only one who thinks Wheating would be an incredible 3k/5k guy as well? He ran ~3:52 for the 1500 in high school as well as 14:55 for 5k. Now he's improved his 1500 by 22 seconds!
Who knows, but that 14:55 from HS really sticks out to me, especially since he'd only been running for a year. Seems like he doesn't lose talent AT ALL as the distance goes up. -
I might have sounded negative on Wheating in the 8 early on this thread, but I like his chances in the 15:
"Even if Wheating is unable to improve upon his marks this season, his strengths as an athlete make him the best medaling prospect America has had since 1987. He is renowned for a tremendous kick, which has seen him in his young career pass at least a dozen world-class athletes in the final 300 of his races without being passed by anyone. It only takes one Wheating race to realize that he can finish with anyone on the track and has the savvy to both place himself in the right spot and gauge how much is in the tank. Unlike Webb who lacked it in 2007, he possesses valuable stores of race experience running from the back and the middle of the field in unevenly-paced and unrabbited affairs.
Wheating’s key blemish appears to be his sheer size, which hampers his ability to run in the midst of the pack without getting tangled. Wheating will have to find a way to navigate the bunched athletes before the bell, or else he is fated to have a lot of races like Asbel Kiprop did last year in the World Championship’s 1500 meter final. Kiprop, a tall and lanky athlete himself, missed out on the medals in Berlin as he found himself at the back at the bell and his kick ran out of room. Another challenge Wheating faces is his lack of experience in world-class races and rounds. This can only be solved with more races and more championships.
It is also worth noting that Wheating’s personal bests have occurred in races where he was not competitive for the win. Grim as that might appear, championship racing is an entirely different ballgame where you can throw paced time-trial results out the window. New 3:29 man Silas Kiplagat found this all too true at this year’s African Championships, much as Webb did at the 2007 world championships. Major championships favor those who can kick, those who don’t panic, and those who have the savvy to place themselves in the right spot. 2008 Olympic silver medalist Nick Willis and 2009 World Champion Yusuf Saad Kamel can assert that the difference between a 3:31-3:32 guy and a 3:29-3:30 guy is simply window-dressing when the medals are decided."
from http://viewfromlane9.blogspot.com/2010/08/generational-gap-american-1500m-running.html#more -
chillll wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks Wheating would be an incredible 3k/5k guy as well? He ran ~3:52 for the 1500 in high school as well as 14:55 for 5k. Now he's improved his 1500 by 22 seconds!
Who knows, but that 14:55 from HS really sticks out to me, especially since he'd only been running for a year. Seems like he doesn't lose talent AT ALL as the distance goes up.
No, it's been brought up. I think 7:30 for 3000 could certainly be a target in the future, but at this point no need to rush to it with so much upside at 800 and 1500. 5000 may be a stretch at the world class level in terms of times, but perhaps for a 13:30 sit and kick championship. Who knows, perhaps the 2015-2017 championships but probably later. -
I like the point about more practice in "championship style racing."
His time trial-like efforts in Europe revealed he can run world class times. The series of rounds and finals at the NCAA Championship shows he has the endurance/strength to survive the prelims at WC/Olympics.
Now it's staying out of bad traffic and not being too far back that could be tweaked a bit. -
Perspectivation wrote:True but Wheating isn't the fastest or the best racer in the world for 800 yet
nor was webb, but he went to belgium for one specific reason... -
asdfe wrote:What was the other -1%?
unconfidence -
He has run 3:30 this year. That means he can line up next to ANYONE who has ever run the event. Give credit where it is due.
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[quote]viewfromlane9.blogspot.com wrote:
re: "best medaling prospect America has had since 1987"
1. Perhaps you are right, but if you are talking 'prospect'; I thought Webb was a 1500 medal prospect in the '04 Olympics and 2 World Champs.
2. I thought Dan Lincoln was a prospect in the '07 WC SC.
3. I thought Krum was a prospect in the 800 in the '03 WC.
4. I thought KK was a prospect in the marathon in the 2000 Olympics and '01 WC.
5.) 4. I thought Ryan Hall was a prospect in the marathon in the '08 Olympics.
6. I thought Kennedy was was a prospect in the 5K in the '96 Olympics.
7. I thought Holman was prospect in the 1500 in the '97 WC.
8. I thought Johnny Johnson was was a prospect in the 800 in the '04 Olympics.
9. Johnny Gray in the '88 and '92 Olympics.
It is debatable how much of a prospect these athletes were or perhaps it was wishful thinking on my part back then. Granted, it hasn't worked out too well, but it not that Wheating is the only medal prospect we've had since '87. The fact is we have won a few medals, e.g, Kenah, Gray, Meb.
