Ryan Hall. Throw away your watch.

Why don't we invite Ryan to this board and we can all brain-storm this problem. I'm sure wwe can come up with a few solutions.

wellnow wrote:

"What is he doing wrong here? It's simple and obvious if you know about Marathon training."

Answer : no fluids. no sugars.

You know I have tried to be a fan of Ryan Hall. But, he's just another weak American great white hope guy that doesn't really do shit. Meb at least got a silver medal and won NYC. Ryan just doesn't have it. Its a tough thing to accept. Its even more kooky that his stupid Nissan meet Ryan Hall commercials pop up all the time. Nissan, go Japanese, you're better off.

If Meb had been in the 2008 London Marathon, he would have run 2:09 (my personal opinion) and Hall would have beaten him by about 3 minutes. Hall actually let the leaders go at certain points and then crept back up.

He surged away in the trials, so the non-surging theory is not true. He was not going to run a sub 2:06 at Boston and never intended to run that pace. When Ikangaa (sp?) would do the same thing years ago, runners would let him go as well, but he usually came back. Today they don't as much and of course, marathoning has changed and not everyone can run 2:05. Personally, on the right course and the right day, I believe Ryan can, it just hasn't happened yet. The days of running 2:10 plus and winning big marathons are pretty much over for the most part.

Everyone has bad races and periods where things don't go well. Obviously his half in Philly was not anywhere near his fitness level. The theory about not being in good half shape 3 weeks out from a marathon is nonsense and horsehockey at best.

Ryan Hall done? Wow, there are some uneducated runners on this board or a bunch of trolls who are living a sad exsistence as human beings.

Although you have the right to your own beliefs, to those who laugh at his personal beliefs, keep laughing and you have my pity. When you are on your death bed or have a terrible accident and know you aren't going to survive, you will regret your decision to not have believed why we are all here. I gave the last rites to a 20 something year old at a park in Michigan. He decided at the last moment that he believed in Jesus. Ironic, isn't it?

Weak American? He ran 2:06:17 2.5 years ago. The Olympic weather played a big role in both his and Dathan's times. The top 3 runners had to have felt great that day in Beijing to run what they did or there's no way it would have happened. Neither Dathan or Ryan had good days.

Oh well, continue the criticism of a fine athlete and have a good day.

Ryan, Get back to racing on the track for awhile. Then come back to the marathon. Your sub-60 minute half and 2:06 mary came soon after a solid collegiate career of short racing. Do it, man. You'll feel like a machine when you step back up!

Hall is like a faster Hanson's athlete, they always run their own plan and don't actually mix it up. Of course if this keeps up, maybe Hall can land with the Hanson's after some more DNS/64min 1/2 marathons ..

I'm sure Sara will love the MI winters better than the trailer

I think that it is unrealistic for him to just keep running marathon after marathon like he has. He lives like a monk and does one or two marathons and nothing else. The shelf-life for this strategy is limited at best. In fact, based the the careers of other great Western marathoners, you might argue that nobody has successfully run sub 2:10 marathons after more than four years. Al Sal was done after about 3 years. Kampienien ran for about four years (not sure how he would have done if he had stayed, but he didn't), Steve Jones had about four years, John Tracey, Frank Shorter, Boston Billy, you can go on and on and on and on. Even the African's only get about three or four years. Geb has proven to be the exception and now everyone looks at him like he should be the run. Cosmo Ndeti got about four years as did Robert Cheruiyot and Paul Tergat. It's always the same thing. These guys can run well for a few years take some time off and may come back and run well for one or two years and then that's it. Hall has just been banging away like Robert Cheruiyot or like Cosmos Ndeti, now he is done. Meb had a career more like KK or Evans Rutto.

I think the OP is very right. Hall needs to leave the marathon, quite being a marathon major money whore and just get back to running fast for a while. He is not going to make much money, but if he wants to make money he should become a banker. He is never going to make a ton of money. He needs to get back to running to win and if the marathon is scary and too far for him to race and not time trial he needs to re-learn to race at shorter distances where the pain doesn't last so long. Invigorate his mental game and invigorate his body and come back for the second half of his career. He won't be competitive after about 32-33 at any distance, so he has about five years left if he takes some time away from the marathon now.

IMO he could leave the marathon and still make the American marathon team with less mileage and have time to do a build up for London.

Father Time wrote:

Without your watch, you do a gut check. You don't know what your pace is... so you go with the surge. How does it feel? If it feels OK, you stay with it. If it feels like you're gonna blow up, you back off.

What is the fastest marathon you have run without once checking your pace in any way?

Don't answer. It's obvious you've never run one at all.

Ryan Hall is a strange guy. Supremely talented, beautiful strides, but he has never been a racer. Not on the track, not in the marathon. He simply cannot race the competition, and apparently never will. He's a time trial, watch watching machine. I like watching guys like Pre and Solinsky, even Ritz and Meb. Hall is a boring metronome.

Most of the guys who have posted here are a disgrace. I think it is a simple society problem also very much influenced by the media. Ryan Hall runs one good race, his first Marathon in London, then he runs a really good trial race (without international competition)in New York, and the Press plus everybody around makes him into a Superstar. In my eyes he has never been that good to have earned this status. He has never even been a contender for a win anywhere he started. Media and people made this hype around him.

What caused this hype is obvious: The hunger of the Americans to pick up what Rogers, Salazar or Shorter left. Yes, Hall can run fast on a flat course but there are quite a few out there, specially Africans, who can run quicker than him. On a tough course like Boston or New York he is lacking the experience, mental strength and fighting spirit to hang in there when the going gets tough.

Maybe, maybe, for him it is time to change the coach like Ritz did and thing may change for him. Sometimes one needs to get fresh input and views from a different perspective. In general most coaches do the same stuff, differences are subtle but just these subtle differences can make a good runner into a great runner.

Wish you luck in your future quest of greatness Mr Ryan Hall!

Midwestern wrote:

Father Time wrote:

Without your watch, you do a gut check. You don't know what your pace is... so you go with the surge. How does it feel? If it feels OK, you stay with it. If it feels like you're gonna blow up, you back off.

What is the fastest marathon you have run without once checking your pace in any way?

Don't answer. It's obvious you've never run one at all.

Obvious? I've done three, and you're right, I do check my watch. But I'm not trying to win it. I'm doing a time trial.

He ran 2:06 2.5 years ago. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Some white American guy runs one spectacular time then is hyped beyond belief and rarely if ever delivers in big races or championships consistently. And Hall only runs like one or twice a year anyway. He doesn't even bother to compete half the time. This is not to say I don't like Alan Webb, Ritz, or Solinsky. I'm just a sports critic for fun. If you continue to fail, I will snap on you. That's why sport is passionate and not a I like every athlete club all the time. I genuinely don't believe Hall will ever medal or win a major marathon. I will stand by that one.

Secondly, just because someone wanted to be a Christian on their death bed does not make necessarily make it ironic. For a situation to have irony there has to be an opposing outcome or situation. For instance, saying I'm so happy when I found out my mother just died a moment ago. Obviously, your understanding of irony is up there with Alanis Morissette. I pity you, sir.

I agree completely. The 5000m/10000m training will give him the speed differential that he will need to run really fast Marathons.

There is no doubt that he is extremely strong right now from running a large volume at altitude.

However, just as you have to cycle through your week with hard and easy days I think it is really important to cycle on and off weeks when you are training at altitude for a extended period of time.

I will him the best and hope to see him running 2:06-2:07 again soon.

I am a fan of US distance running and want to see all of our best do well, Hall included.

Hall does not lack a competitive instinct. He has won some big races (Houston Half, Philly Half, NCAA 5k, USOT Marathon, to name a few). What he lacks seems to be a control factor when racing the really big boys in the Marathon (surging on Geb et al in his first Mar, asking the pacemakers to pick it up in 2nd London). Maybe these lessons have shaped his "run my own pace" attitude. But he has run enough marathons now that he should not be learning anymore.

I agree that he is not really racing, but running a time trial. Meb puts himself in a position to win and has the Resume to prove it (2 OG, 1,2,3 NYC). While Hall beat Meb in Boston, Meb WON NYC while Hall finished 4th by letting the leaders go. I think anyone would take Meb's Resume over Halls. A faster time does not mean much without a win or a WR (which BTW, you don't get without winning).

Hall appears to lack the fitness/sharpness and confidence that he had in 07,08 when he set the AR at 1/2, ran US Mar debut record, won OTs, ran 2:06. Since then, he has run good races/times for an American, but has not really come close to his own standards from then.

I am starting to wonder if the Mammoth TC is really as effective as it seems. Some runners go there, perform well initially and then seem to stagnate. Is raw speed is neglected? I agree with posters who say Hall needs to run some 5K, 10K or even the Half more often. I understand the money and even the fact that the marathon requires a long build up and may preclude racing in that period. But just as you cannot run a 28:00 10K without being able to run 13:30 or so 5k, you can't run a 2:06 without being capable of a pretty solid 5k/10/Half. Maybe he is able to reproduce tempo runs from back then, but that is not the whole story. How much easier was it when he had 13:15 5K speed? Has he even raced a 5K since 2006? I also question his coach letting him run the Tioga Pass run a week before a high profile Half in Philly. I suspect his legs were hammered by a useless race that gained him nothing.

Meb and Deena have raced shorter races in their buildups - including European Track meets. Deena has the same coach as Hall, so is Hall training with nagging injuries that don't allow him to race? If so, he needs to get healthy so he can. That means not running 2 marathons a year.

Now he has dropped out of Chicago. Again I ask - is he injured or over training? I wish him the best and hope he can get back where he was. Hopefully NOT running Chicago will actually be a good thing.

Father Time wrote:

Dear Mr. Hall,

I'm a big fan, BUT...

In Boston, you said you'd run free, but you checked your watch like you have OCD. It's become a problem.

The leader's surged in Boston. You checked your watch - yep, if I run any faster than my current 4:50 mile, I'm gonna blow up. Your head got in the way.

Without your watch, you do a gut check. You don't know what your pace is... so you go with the surge. How does it feel? If it feels OK, you stay with it. If it feels like you're gonna blow up, you back off.

Use the watch on the track for speed work. But please leave it at home for Chicago.

OP hits the nail on the head.

As to the second poster on this thread who asked how many sub 210 marathons the OP has run...probably 0, the exact same number Terrence Mahon has run. There is no rule ever that you have to run xx:xx to be a good runner. There is story after story of coaches that could not touch their athletes times but still had a huge impact on training great athletes. The OP has a valid point, and if Hall wants to go down as one of the greats at some point he is going to have to take the OP's advice.

Yaaaaaaaaaaawn children, children

broken arrow wrote:

I agree completely. The 5000m/10000m training will give him the speed differential that he will need to run really fast Marathons.

It already has. It's nothing more than wishful thinking to believe that he's going to find more gains in that area at this point.

gonchar wrote:

Ryan Hall is a strange guy. Supremely talented, beautiful strides, but he has never been a racer. Not on the track, not in the marathon. He simply cannot race the competition, and apparently never will. He's a time trial, watch watching machine. I like watching guys like Pre and Solinsky, even Ritz and Meb. Hall is a boring metronome.

This.

The entire Hall hatred comes from this. He seems like a nice fellow but he doesn't inspire fear, respect or admiration.

Like a fast Dean K. People look at him and say: "yeah he's fast, faster that I'll ever be, and faster than everyone but 10 people in the world, but I can't care enough and I am bored already please let me go".

WIth Geb, Meb, Pre, Terry Fox you name it, you got something to look up to. It's not just about being fast. Running, racing, is in essence an inspiration. Time trial does have a place, but look at Bekele or Geb's face after they've been running (alone) against the clock. You see more smile and drive than you'll ever see with the current U.S. marathoners.

Would Jesus wear a watch while running a marathon?

Maybe God told him to check his watch.

Geez!