Is it OK to BANDIT a race?

I get them. Try bullshitting your way into any other event wether it be a sporting event or whatever. There is a very good chance that they'll point you in the direction of the ticket booth.

will wrote:

It's not a hard concept at all. Are these others that difficult that you don't get them? Remember, "fixed-price commodities" are not absolutes in the world...we just act like they are here in the US.

That's the thing though. It's not a practice people subscribe to all the time. If we gave people an alternative then people who might not be able to otherwise compete, could enjoy the event.

Don't get me wrong...people who can pay but don't want to should pay. However, for people who can't, money should not necessarily be an obstacle. Just find a work-around. Money is not the only thing you can gain from racers...time and energy go a long way.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with speading the wealth around and allowing those less fortunate to participate for FREE!

How do we decide who can and can't pay? I've had many Friday nights where I blew too much $ on having a good time. Guess what, I can't afford my weekend race! If someone is really that poor maybe they should spend their free time figuring out a way to make ends meet!

will wrote:

That's the thing though. It's not a practice people subscribe to all the time. If we gave people an alternative then people who might not be able to otherwise compete, could enjoy the event.

Don't get me wrong...people who can pay but don't want to should pay. However, for people who can't, money should not necessarily be an obstacle. Just find a work-around. Money is not the only thing you can gain from racers...time and energy go a long way.

I'm thinking more along the lines of a 6-year old kid who realized he wanted to try the sport but whose single-mother doesn't have the money to pay for the race.

I don't have some fully-developed system....but that doesn't negate the idea. Maybe make rules where a particular athlete could only do this 3 times a year. Just a thought.

If it's really about spreading the goodwill of the sport around, as I said before, money should not be an obstacle. Sure, that might complicate things for RD's. So what...are they doing it for the money or the sport?

I have always had a few people call me and talk about free race entries for special circumstances and I have no problem with that...but my expierence is most bandits can afford to pay but rationalize it with the ole' "it's a city street and I pay my taxes so I can run on it" line...I always thought it was funny how the cars that had to be re-directed paid the same taxes and they couldn't use the street...so I will be resonable with anyone who calls and has a situation that merits a free entry...

O.K. I'll bend a litle bit. There are events where certain age groups get in for free or a lesser rate. If I were a race director I'd consider letting certain people run my races for free with a number. Come to think of it, I had my entry fee waived many times when I was younger so I guess any prize I may have won in the random drawing was unfair to the those who paid. So, I guess we should leave it up to the race director and let him/her deal with any repercussions.

will wrote:

I'm thinking more along the lines of a 6-year old kid who realized he wanted to try the sport but whose single-mother doesn't have the money to pay for the race.

I don't have some fully-developed system....but that doesn't negate the idea. Maybe make rules where a particular athlete could only do this 3 times a year. Just a thought.

If it's really about spreading the goodwill of the sport around, as I said before, money should not be an obstacle. Sure, that might complicate things for RD's. So what...are they doing it for the money or the sport?

Here are some other options:

If you are good you can ask for a comp entry, much better then being a bandit...

Or you can always get a group of friends to have a time trial, I've run some PR's that way before.

Simple question:

Assume a race is organised based on the fact that there are 500 paying racers and that the RD is making a profit, and the race is financially healthy.

Assume a bandit decides that he will run the race but not take water, cross the finish line, interfere with any runners, and will start dead last. Not only that, but the bandit will run in last place, however, the paying last place runner will not notice the bandit, so that runner will not be affected by the bandit.

Assume as well that the bandit would not have run the race if he had to pay. Also, the bandit will not encourage others to bandit, nor did anyone notice that he did not pay.

In this situation, no one has lost anything. The RD and the volunteers did exactly the same job they would have done regardless. No goods were used by the bandit. No other runners were impeded, nor mislead in anyway by the bandit. The RD did not lose the bandit's entry fee because the bandit would not have paid anyway.

So, if no one has lost anything, and the bandit has not influenced future behaviour of others, how is the bandit being unethical?

Are you smoking something illegal or retarded?

Oh, by all means yes! Bandit every race you run. No one should ever pay to run any event.

To take this idea to its extreme, I'm planning to not only bandit the Olympic marathon in Athens, but cheat in it, as well. There's two reasons for my doing this: one, I really, really, really want to be on TV, and two, it's always been a dream of mine to win the Olympic marathon. Unfortunately, some group of elitist bastards has decided that you have to have run no slower than a 2:15:00 marathon and place in the top three in your country's trials to go the %@$^*!# Olympics. I just don't think that's fair to regular folks like me who can only run 16:52 for the 5,000 and who don't have the time or the desire to run the 30 miles per week those overly obsessed professional runners claim they run.

Anyway, on to the nuts and bolts of my scheme: Since I figure the officials probably won't want me on the starting line with no number or U.S.A. uniform, I'm planning on hopping in a couple of hundred yards up the road just after the gun goes off. To ensure I get on TV right away, I'm thinking of wearing a shirt that has "SUICIDE BOMBER" written in several languages. I'll stay in front of the pack as long as I can hold the pace (maybe a mile or even more if I'm feeling really fast that day), then drift back and blend in with the main group for another couple of minutes before slipping unnoticed off the course ... but wait! There's more!

Next - and here's the really original, clever part of my plan - I'll take some form of motorized transportation (anyone know if they have a subway system in Athens?) to round about the 23 mile point, making sure I'm at least three minutes ahead of the leaders, and merrily jump back onto the course. I'm pretty confident no one would ever think a competitor might take the subway during a race. From there, I'll run a strong pace toward the finish, making sure to grab and drink from as many of the water bottles as I can, subsequently hurling the bottles as far from the course as possible. If all goes well, I can be the first person in Olympic marathon history to enter the stadium as an "imposter" (I just now made up that term for lack of a better one) when the true leader is still on the course!

I know - I'll probably be found out at some point, but in the best case scenario, I'll be awarded the gold medal and can scarper off with it before I'm caught!

So, as you can so plainly see, being a bandit is the only way to go. Some general guidelines for banditing:

Get to the race early so you can get the best parking spot before a paying entrant can nab it. Double park if possible.

Always start in front of faster runners. Hinder them by shuffling along at a walking pace when the gun is fired. This works best if you bring a large, untrained dog on a long leash.

Alternatively, sprint to the front and lead everyone off course.

If you're fast enough to stay with the leaders for a good portion of the race, keep asking them questions, brag about how easy the pace feels, throw in a few big surges, then drop out after a couple of miles. Never tell them you're a bandit, though; always make them think you're capable of getting that trophy they want. No need to pretend you've pulled a hamstring or anything, either. Just step off the course after you've screwed up everybody else's race.

Take as many cups of water as you can get your hands on, even if you have no intention of drinking the water. Crush the cups and throw them down in the road or in people's yards.

After the race, help yourself to as much free food and beer as you can swallow. In fact, get drunk and obnoxious. If you're lucky, you can find those leaders you surged on and ask them how the rest of the race went for them, explaining that you were just doing a workout and never had any intention of finishing.

Help people out by removing any annoying flyers from under their windshield wipers. Don't bother finding a trash can to put them in; just throw them down on the ground with all those cups. Somebody'll clean up the mess later. That's what they're there for, right?

Happy banditing!

Sometimes I bandit, but mostly I pay. I've been racing since 10K's used to cost $6.00. Then again, I also have a first edition of Jim Fixx's book.

The prices have become outrageous. Shirt quality is lacking at a lot of these races. I've been mis-directed on courses, run short courses, run long courses, started late, started waaaay late, etc. I've also run very well directed races. It's always a crap shoot. If I were to purchase services and was unhappy with the results, I have recourse. If I pay to go to a race, and it is not directed very effectively, what recourse do I have? I don't think any RD is going to do a pay after you run race, but some of these $15-25 races are not organized at all.

Here are some situations where I won't pay:

Not enough people to take my money.

Insufficient amount of restrooms/portable toilets.

No professional timing company.

These can make or break the this racer's decision to pay. Sure, one can make the argument that if I encounter these situations, then I don't need to race. But because of the advertisement of a race, I have chosen to attend the function, and I am now invested, at least from a time standpoint, in this race, and I need to complete my run. What harm is it if I do it here, or line up at the start and run the opposite direction?

Having raced hundreds of times since the very early 80's, I assume that the race will be organized appropriately and according to the level of professionals involved. I will have plenty of slack and a willingness to pay $15 for a race put on by a church and a group of volunteers. A professional race organization that attempts to charge $25 and doesn't meet the above criteria has effectively "stolen" my training/racing time, transportation & lodging costs, etc., and I might bandit the race.

Additionally, if I bandit a race, and it is directed well, I'll return next year with my wallet in tow. Kind of like a test drive, if you will.

here's a rant. i pay always, but i can see why someone would bandit.

i am tired of paying for races where the lead runners have to pay the full amount, including $3 for a timing chip just so they can be eligible for a glass that says "you won" with rotten rasberries in it or something. (i've actually received this before at a race. rasberries had mold all over them.) then later on see like $100 gift cerificates go to number 3552 in a raffle, who woke up that day feeling a little queasy, decided not to run but showed up anyway. what's that all about rd's?

people keep saying, "show up to a basketball tournament and try to bandit, see what happens." well, show up to a basketball tournament and see how many penguins are allowed to play, then see if there's a "free participant raffle" that out does the prize for the winner. key word there is free, as i have seen some sick prizes go in paid raffles.

also, the decline of t-shirt quality is huge. most of the shirts nowadays have no style, are all xxxl (which don't fit good runners unless they are tall), and are that really uncomfortable cotton knit. i don't want one, i just want a measured course, cleared roads, some competition, and my time. make a cool shirt and i'll pay the extra $10. oh, and switch back to poly/cotton blend.

someone called bandits punks. your frickin right pal, and punk is about questioning authority. i say banditing is not okay to save a couple of bucks (because an rd might just comp you if you make a good plea.) i say banditing is okay if you are making a public statement. in protest of the crappiness of a race, and the decline of quality road races. if enough good runners at the front of the pack bandit, maybe they'll eventually do something to improve enjoyment for everybody, not just the penguins.

and don't give me crap that it's the penguins that make the race viable. good runners don't need raffles. good runners don't need 10 water stops in a 5k. good runners usually don't need timing chips. good runners don't sue the rd if there isn't a difribulator. good runners don't need a jam band near the finish line. good runners don't need half a banana that 100 sweaty people already touched. they certainly don't need a $5 plastic trophy.

what i'm saying is, i don't know how it all breaks down, but how much could an rd save by cutting out the cute stuff? is it significant or not? i honestly am curious, and i'm not trying to imple that i know the answer. what i do know is that at the end of a race, a class move by an rd would be to atleast give the winners their money back, with the standard charity donation deducted of course. (it would be bad karma to take your donation back). and a waiver next year.

here's another option. for good runners, a $20 entry fee in a 5k is like $1.30 a minute, and that for like 15+ guys. i think entry fees should be based on time. show some credentials, and get prorated.

and for any rd's out there, who the hell started the half a banana thing anyway? no class.

It is NOT acceptable. If people are polite to you at a race it's because they need to focus on their own races, not because they approve of your stealing from the race.

Don't do it.

Last year I paid $15 or so to run in a small local race and I won. I got as a prize a little plastic trophy. In addition to this they had a free-to-entrants raffle where they were giving out $25 gift certificates to the running store, along with other worthwhile prizes to any fatass with a race number. So I'm considering banditing this year in protest.

The answer is no, it is not okay to bandit races. Yes, races fees are going up. Plan accordingly.

DITTO!

scotth wrote:

The answer is no, it is not okay to bandit races. Yes, races fees are going up. Plan accordingly.

In 99% of most situations in life there is clearly only a right and wrong thing to do. This case in not in the 1%.

i want to give a good example of how i protested a fee, since i posted that i thought it was okay to bandit a race in protest.

if it's a bad race, and they give the option to be chip timed or not, protesters should not pay. run the race and come jogging in with or ahead of the leaders. they'll be like "why aren't you officially timed. don't you know that you can't win unless you're officially timed?"

tell them something like "really, it just looked like i won. maybe not that plastic trophy, but the race for sure."

i have done this twice. so far it has not improved race quality, but i'm all about the grassroots movements. also, one time they offered to comp me in a race the next week, so that's in the right direction. and the guy who got my would-be-trophy offered it to me. i let him keep it though, to offset that $3 bucks he paid.

a more pure form of protesting would be not to race at all, but they won't notice that way. it's okay to get in someone's face and protest, as long as you aren't breaking laws, which remains to be fully cleared up here. cops saying they will remove bandits doesn't mean it's a crime, so i'm not buying that yet. they remove protesters all the time, but only some are actually every brought up on charges. until they say it's unlawful, i'll support bandits in protest.

again, let me reiterate that cheap bandits aren't what i'm in support of.

and i just got a good idea for truly broke runners. show up early and see if you can panhandle the money. i'm sure if you do your stretching in front of a hat and sign that says, "will race for money! need entry fee." people will donate to your cause enough to cover the entry fee. i'd pay to see that. (i think panhandling is illegal though.)