dan brown blows giant donkey wrote:
I don't fault them for not doing it this year but they are really our only hope for the event.
Well why the hell not? There were many runners in this field with credentials far superior to Hall's and Ritz's. Is it just that these other runners love their homeland and think highly of representing it in international championships and Hall and Ritz do not?
America is to soft for LD wrote:
America is simply to soft for LD. Americans are to soft to be good at marathon running. There is really nothing you can do to change that other than to send Americans over to the Rift Valley for training for a few years. You do that, and the Americans will be good again. But, Americans are too soft to be able to live and train with Kenyans so they won't.
What do you mean by "too soft"? Kenyans in the rift valley train insanely hard, it is true, but their lives are (ironically) much easier otherwise. Get up, run, eat, feed the cattle and fiddle around on the farm, then go for another run, eat dinner, and go to bed. I think Americans have it too hard! They either have to work part-time and scrape by, worrying about money every day, or sacrifice their rest and work full-time, not getting the food or sleep that they need. I agree, sending our best Americans to the Rift Valley might help a lot, but it wouldn't be because their life got HARDER!
He ran , what were you doing?
Africans don't work harder, they RECOVER harder.
Since you WERE NOT there. I can only assume you are committed and training for one of the big fall marathons to make your world statement.
Lee Greenwood wrote:
Well why the hell not? There were many runners in this field with credentials far superior to Hall's and Ritz's. Is it just that these other runners love their homeland and think highly of representing it in international championships and Hall and Ritz do not?
I usually don't call people idiots on message boards, but this is a true exception.
Ritz ran the 10k, idiot. He came in 6th, set a PR, and was ~10 seconds off the American record, idiot. He represented his homeland in an international championship and represented it well, idiot. And he probably wouldn't have finished any higher than 6th in the marathon, so it's not like he hurt the team by running the 10k, idiot.
As far as Hall goes, he can make a crapload more money by running the majors instead of WC. You would have to be an idiot to not go where the money is, idiot.
How many countries are better than the US in the Men's Marathon?
A Fistful of Almonds wrote:
No, the point is actually that if there really is a "resurgence" as they trumpeted after the NYC OT then the second five guys in the U.S. wouldn't be this bad! We have a few respectable outliers come along every decade or two, but otherwise our "development system" blows chunks.
backwards wrote:
And he probably wouldn't have finished any higher than 6th in the marathon, so it's not like he hurt the team by running the 10k, idiot.
So you're saying his 6th in the 10 "helped" the team? Riddle me this: where is Ritz's best shot at making a podium at a meet like this, the 10 or the marathon?
As far as Hall goes, he can make a crapload more money by running the majors instead of WC. You would have to be an idiot to not go where the money is, idiot.
Are you saying that the top 3-6 today wouldn't? They're all idiots, according to you. And you'd have to be the most cynical apologist for the self-serving if you are trying to make the case that a little more money should be more important than the opportunity to represent your country. If the top 3 (and everyone in the field with better credentials than Hall) today weren't above representing their countries rather than chase money (appearance and prize money which would go further for them and their families than it will for Hall) they why is Hall?
Twelve, going by the Worldcup standings from today's race. Or third-from-last. We're only third best on our continent today.
on the runs wrote:
How many countries are better than the US in the Men's Marathon?
A Fistful of Almonds wrote:No, the point is actually that if there really is a "resurgence" as they trumpeted after the NYC OT then the second five guys in the U.S. wouldn't be this bad! We have a few respectable outliers come along every decade or two, but otherwise our "development system" blows chunks.
This somehow becomes NEWS every 4 years. We never EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER send our best marathoners to Worlds. They just don't want to go.
Gotta make a living. Go run NYC or Chicago.
Alan
Lee Greenwood wrote:
If the top 3 (and everyone in the field with better credentials than Hall) today weren't above representing their countries rather than chase money (appearance and prize money which would go further for them and their families than it will for Hall) they why is Hall?
Because a Kenyan is just another 2:05-2:06 Kenyan until they make a name for themselves by winning a big race or a medal. Hall runs 2:06 and can make killer appearance fees because he is the great white hope. Hall makes an order of magnitude more to show up at NYC than some Kenyan who has run 2:06 and the best thing on their resume is a 6th place at London. Appearance fees depend on much more than your PR.
And no, it's not cynical, it's realistic. Hall has a limited window as a professional runner. He is entitled to make his money and then represent the US at an event like the Olympics that the general public actually cares about.
Lee Greenwood wrote:
dan brown blows giant donkey wrote:I don't fault them for not doing it this year but they are really our only hope for the event.
Well why the hell not? There were many runners in this field with credentials far superior to Hall's and Ritz's. Is it just that these other runners love their homeland and think highly of representing it in international championships and Hall and Ritz do not?
I don't know what the heck you're talking about but what i meant was Ritz ran the 10,000m and did very well (in that same international championship) and Hall focused on Boston which he did for his homeland to gain interest in the US and to gain international respect for US runners in the marathon. Tergat and Geb have arguably the best credentials in the history of the marathon and neither have won an international championship in the event because in the marathon other races ie london, berlin, new york and boston are considered as important if not more important than the WC. That's why i don't fault them they did more for US distance running this year than almost anyone else has (Still hopeful TEG and Lagat will do even more of course)
The Kenyans who medaled today aren't "just another 2:05-2:06 Kenyan." Each could command tidy sums to appear in Chicago or London, even if they hadn't run today. Dos Santos can get more at NYC just by being the champion twice there in recent years. Kebede could based on the fact that he has more Olympic hardware than Hall does. For them, and their families, the appearance fees that they could command would be at least as "killer" or moreso in the economies where they live.
If you want realistic, Hall won't make enough from running that he won't have to work after he's done running for a living. So what's it really matter? Since when do we applaud athletes for forsaking shots at glory in favor of more money? Pay-Rod anyone? As for what he's entitled to, your view amounts to so much apologia. If he truly did care about it then he would have been in Berlin. He only cares about it as far as it can benefit him, personally.
dan brown blows giant donkey wrote:
Hall focused on Boston which he did for his homeland to gain interest in the US and to gain international respect for US runners in the marathon.
Get back to me when you're through sucking Hall's rod.
That seemed harsh
Lee Greenwood wrote:
He only cares about it as far as it can benefit him, personally.
WELCOME TO AMERICA! Now watch your step getting off the boat ...
backwards wrote:
Lee Greenwood wrote:Well why the hell not? There were many runners in this field with credentials far superior to Hall's and Ritz's. Is it just that these other runners love their homeland and think highly of representing it in international championships and Hall and Ritz do not?
I usually don't call people idiots on message boards, but this is a true exception.
Ritz ran the 10k, idiot. He came in 6th, set a PR, and was ~10 seconds off the American record, idiot. He represented his homeland in an international championship and represented it well, idiot. And he probably wouldn't have finished any higher than 6th in the marathon, so it's not like he hurt the team by running the 10k, idiot.
As far as Hall goes, he can make a crapload more money by running the majors instead of WC. You would have to be an idiot to not go where the money is, idiot.
Post of the day. Well said, Backwards.
Ritz ran the 10k
Lee Greenwood wrote:
dan brown blows giant donkey wrote:Hall focused on Boston which he did for his homeland to gain interest in the US and to gain international respect for US runners in the marathon.
Get back to me when you're through sucking Hall's rod.
I might instead have characterized his comment as painfully naive, although someone who calls himself "dan brown [sic] blows giant donkey" probably doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.
I would guess that Hall did a personal cost-benefit analysis and decided to go for a big payoff instead of a likely also-ran finish in the World Championships. Some would make a different choice, but I think that the majority of American runners would do the same thing. I may be underestimating the power of patriotism, but I don't think that either choice would be greatly influenced by the desire to represent one's "homeland" (or, for that matter, to glorify God).
I might instead have characterized his comment as painfully naive, although someone who calls himself "dan brown [sic] blows giant donkey" probably doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.
I would guess that Hall did a personal cost-benefit analysis and decided to go for a big payoff instead of a likely also-ran finish in the World Championships. Some would make a different choice, but I think that the majority of American runners would do the same thing. I may be underestimating the power of patriotism, but I don't think that either choice would be greatly influenced by the desire to represent one's "homeland" (or, for that matter, to glorify God).[/quote]
Agreed it was a distasteful name to go by I apologize. I still think you guys are putting to much stock in the patriotism of the WC marathon. I think in every other event you can make a case for the money vs running for your country decision. I just think that the marathon is different the best marathon runners from all country's often don't compete for their country's at the WC or OC. You can say they just do it for money but I think lee was right Hall makes a good living from his shoe deal and he doesn't seem to be the kind of guy that's worried about money anyway. The point I would make is that perhaps marathon runners feel they can better represent their country's on the world stage by competing at the great marathons like Boston where competition is actually better than the world championship for that at event.