High mileage runners and experts chime in

That sounds like quite a workload. Just so I understand you are doing 3-4 hard wo's a week and a long run along with the mileage? If so that seems like alot of work, only 2 recovery days. Could you be overtraining? How's your heart rate, elevated at all? I'm curious about your age too. At 50 for me I'm lucky to get 1-2 hard wo's a week and a long run or I'll start getting into overtrain mode.

I'm 24 years old, so I have youth on my side in terms of recovery. Haven't noticed a spike in heart rate. In terms of overtraining, I've always read that elite runners do something similar ( 3-4 hard workouts per week). But I am concerned about overtraining

male or female?

Male. I know I'm slow.

Let me try and help if I can, here are few thoughts for you:

1) Training pace for easy runs - you should not run slower than 65% of your vV02 Max pace on your easy runs. The reason for that is below that pace your biomechanics become inefficient and you are actually teaching your body wrong things and allowing it to form bad habits. 65-75% of your vVO2 max is plenty slow enough to allow for a good recovery while maintain biomechanical efficiency. Given the PR's you have listed and assuming you are in that type shape now, I'd estimate your vVO2 max pace is about 5:07 per mile. This would make your appropriate easy/recovery pace between 6:50 and 7:50 per mile.

2) Do not run any of your workouts at race level efforts, (except a time trial). I beleive that this is one of the biggest mistakes most distance runners make. Shoot for 80-90% of max effort in your quality workouts. You will gain the most benefit for the recovery time needed with this approach.

3) Adapt to your situation. Distance runners will improve the most through long blocks of consistent training. So make sure your training routine is sustainable for long periods. To do this you will need to adapt your program to your unique situation, including time available for training, work demands, weather demands, etc. If you need to back off the mileage some in the hot months then do it, for the sake of being able to training consistently and not getting injured. Also when you start doing your easy runs at the appropriate pace you may find you have to cut back a mile or two but you'll benefit more form it.

4) Regeneration breaks - Also be sure to periodicly take a regenration break that includes some days off and just easy jogging days. I like to include this about 10 days of this type of break every 6-8 months or so. Skip this step any you can very easily platuea and get stale.

5) Try and find a way to get more sleep. I know easier said than done, but sacking out a few minutes earlier or sleeping in a few minutes later can have a big effect. 4-5 hours a night just won't cut it for most serious runners.

More specifics of the advice above can be found on my free training theory website

www.maximumperformancerunning.com

Good luck and keep up the hard work.

SLEEP - I mean you're spelling it out when you're describing your weekends.

The stress you're getting throughout the day is probably adding to already elevated cortisol levels.

There are so many ways to look at your situation. 90-100 mpw is not really all that high on the overall scale. But it's pretty high for someone working as a teacher. I used to do about 100-110 during the school year when I taught high school but would use the summers to get into the 120-150 range. It also reads like you're doing it mostly in singles and that is a fairly high load to do in one run a day.

I'm interested in two or three other things you mention. One is the 2-3 track sessions a week. Maybe that's one, or even two, too many, especially if it's hot and humid. I recall an interview Jeff Galloway did in RW after he made the 1972 Olympic team where he mentioned that he'd found it very hard to do interval sessions after a day of school teaching so he just bagged them and did steady runs that often built to a good pace. Maybe you should reduce the number of track sessions or even eliminate them and just do some unstructured fartlek or do intervals by time away from the track. Theoretically this would allow you to run by feel and not overwork yourself by forcing yourself to hit specific times.

I also wonder if the 8:00 pace isn't too slow for you. I often felt sluggish when I ran too slowly. Does that pace feel natural and comfortable or do you feel like you're working hard to hold back?

I also notice the 4-5 hours of sleep thing. Your school day must end by three or so. Is there any way you can get a nap in between the end of the school day and the start of your run?

Yes, hating your job may contribute to all of this. But that may be something you'll need to deal with most of the time. Hopefully you can change that but lots of people never can.

Finally, I always remember a quote from Brendan Foster to the effect that a runner is someone who goes to bed at night feeling tired and gets up in the morning feeling even more so. But also remember that it's a sport for you. It's something that is supposed to make your life better. If your current routine is too much of a drag, change it. You probably won't run fast enough to get a shoe contract and chuck your job on 70 mpw, but that's not happening on 90-100 either.

You need more sleep, period. 5-6 hours per night is not enough for someone who does not run. You need to target 8 hours/night.

MPR wrote:More specifics of the advice above can be found on my free training theory website

http://www.maximumperformancerunning.com

Holy Christ.... your 12 year old DAUGHTER is the "best known" follower of your "MPR method?!?"

Well his daughter is the fastest 12 yr old distance runner in the country at least (my words not his) and wins overall in most all her races against adults.

Seems like I saw a couple threads on her on this message board about her running as well.

Can you say the same about your running or success?

I for one appreciate that he shares his training theory for free.

I would cut it down to 1-2 workouts plus the tempo instead of 2-3 plus the tempo. If you feel like you're racing your workouts you should slow them down as well. They should be relaxed but quick instead of really hard and draining. Anyway, you should cut it back to a reasonable amount before you burn yourself out. The sleep problem says you're putting your body under an increased amount of stress. Since you haven't increased the mileage, the intensity is probably what's causing it.

I have to assume you're doing doubles with that kind of mileage, but if you're not then you should be. Consider making some of your shorter runs (or even some of the longer ones on non-recovery days) more of a moderate pace like 6:45 - 7:30 pace. For example, do a workout, then do 7:45 - 8:00 pace for the next run or two, then do the day after that at a moderate pace (say 7:00 pace), etc.

Fan of the family wrote: Well his daughter is the fastest 12 yr old distance runner in the country at least (my words not his) and wins overall in most all her races against adults.

Tell you what... let me know how she's making out in 10 years. If she's still running at a high level even 5-6 years from now, then I'll be impressed. For now, I'm of the simple view that this is another jackass overbearing parent living his dreams vicariously through his daughter.

apply some chap stick to a gun barrel

Nice comments.

I am trying to give some sound advice (which is what the OP asked for) and offer a free source he can go to to learn more if he likes the advice I gave.

What happens for my trying to help, you decide to attack me and my daughter. Very nice.

As to my friend who tried to lend a good word on my behalf. Thanks but I think it'll just egg on nay sayers like this guy.

MPR wrote:... you decide to attack me and my daughter. Very nice.

Where in HELL did I attack your daughter? Your daughter's got nothing to do with this, other than she's been unfortunately and innocently caught up in your delusions of grandeur. I wish her all the best for a successful adulthood. But I don't anticipate her running "career" will last too many years more. So I hope she has some other goals and dreams of her own to pursue.

I've read many of your posts and never really had any strong reaction one way or another until I clicked on your site, and was frankly disgusted by what I found.

It may be just me. And I'm OK with that.

Hi Asterix! :-)

i was actually enjoying this post and thought it unusual for letsrun until some jackass had to ruin it. this forum is ridiculous. get an effin life.

as long as his daughter is enjoying her running i don't see the problem.

Smarter Than That wrote: Hi Asterix! :-)

No, I'm not him. He lives about 5 hours by car from me.