Malmo: Your take on 20 mile long runs high school runners?

Wanna Be wrote:

So if I was running 100 miles a week, 20 mile long runs would be acceptable? Would a perfect 100 mile week under malmo's guidance be......

Sun 20

Mon 6,6

Tues 7,7

Wed 15

Thurs 6,6

Fri 8/8

Sat 7/4

Or would the Sunday run be 10,10 ad the Wednesday run be 8,7?[/quote]

The perfect 100 mile week is like the perfect tense: it's the one in the past, the one you just ran. That's the only perfect week. All the rest is speculation--except the one to come.

Maybe I'm just not into Malmo, but I dont really get the OPs insistence on even doubles like 7, 7 or 10, 10

If your gonna do a 14 mile day, I say do 9 and 5 or 10 and 4.

deleuze wrote:

So if I was running 100 miles a week, 20 mile long runs would be acceptable? Would a perfect 100 mile week under malmo's guidance be......

Sun 20

Mon 6,6

Tues 7,7

Wed 15

Thurs 6,6

Fri 8/8

Sat 7/4

Or would the Sunday run be 10,10 ad the Wednesday run be 8,7?

[/quote]

Sun 15

Mon 5,10

Tue 5,10

Wed 5,10

Thu 5,10

Fri 5,5

Sat 10,5

I qualified for footlocker and I did one 8 miler that season my longest run most weeks was 6 miles.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ wrote:

I qualified for footlocker and I did one 8 miler that season my longest run most weeks was 6 miles.

And you will be a world class runner once you start doing high mileage.

malmo wrote:

deleuze wrote:

So if I was running 100 miles a week, 20 mile long runs would be acceptable? Would a perfect 100 mile week under malmo's guidance be......

Sun 20

Mon 6,6

Tues 7,7

Wed 15

Thurs 6,6

Fri 8/8

Sat 7/4

Or would the Sunday run be 10,10 ad the Wednesday run be 8,7?

Sun 15

Mon 5,10

Tue 5,10

Wed 5,10

Thu 5,10

Fri 5,5

Sat 10,5[/quote]

Thanks malmo. You seem to always help people out. I copied that sample week you typed and posted it on my desktop.

And I see that my original question regarding 20 milers was answered. Thanks.

malmo wrote:

deleuze wrote:

So if I was running 100 miles a week, 20 mile long runs would be acceptable? Would a perfect 100 mile week under malmo's guidance be......

Sun 20

Mon 6,6

Tues 7,7

Wed 15

Thurs 6,6

Fri 8/8

Sat 7/4

Or would the Sunday run be 10,10 ad the Wednesday run be 8,7?

Sun 15

Mon 5,10

Tue 5,10

Wed 5,10

Thu 5,10

Fri 5,5

Sat 10,5[/quote]

Why the 5/10 combo almost everyday? I always figured it's better to mix up the distances, making some longer, some shorter.

My general advice:

Long run 15-20% of weekly mileage. If you're running relatively low mileage, lean towards 20%, if you're running relatively high mileage lean towards 15%.

Maintaining 70 mpw is a good goal, as long as you've successfully MAINTAINED 60 mpw of more in a previous year. There's no reason for any high schooler to go higher than 85 mpw and those are guys who, no offense, have more solid training bases than a 16:30 guy would. If you feel good after a few weeks of 70, take a down week and try 75 but I wouldn't hold it for more than one or two weeks.

Tempo runs/fartleks are key for maximizing your aerobic development without terribly taxing the body. Since this will likely be a challenging amount of volume for you, you want to play it cautious with the intensity.

At least every other week I'd do something faster, like 400's at 2mile pace, just because if you rely on strides as your only means of maintaining your ability to run fast you will feel very flat when you do try to run fast in a race or time trial, and racing at a speed your body is not prepared for is a good way to get injured. Just make sure the day before isn't terribly long and the next morning you do an EASY (at least 30s/mile slower than your normal run pace) shakeout. If you feel good you can come back with a normal run in the afternoon, if you still feel sore from the workout do another easy run or take the day off (it won't kill you so long as you accept a slightly lower mileage total for the week)

ehfjwehfo wrote:

Why the 5/10 combo almost everyday? I always figured it's better to mix up the distances, making some longer, some shorter.

it doesn't HAVE to be. alternating between 9 and 11 would do the same thing for you. 10 and 5 are good standard distances for a main run and an easy double, and the math works out well. I guarantee he just made that schedule up on the fly to make a point that you do NOT have to (and probably SHOULD NOT do) 20-milers if you aren't training for the marathon, even at 100 mpw. I know guys who do 120mpw with a long run of 17 or 18 miles. They double 6 days a week, though. Somewhere, malmo has posted his training logs, and he doesn't do incredibly far long runs, even when he did over 150mpw.

I'm going to throw this out there: "Unless you are training for the marathon, there is no reason to ever run longer than 2 hours." Discuss this suggestion.

I did one 20 miler in university, in 2:20, more for the mental benefits of having run one than physical benefits. 20 seemed so much harder than the 15-16 which was what I was running. However 20 was physically not much different but mentally it got me pumped and gave me a lot of confidence. I was training for 5km-10km at the time.

But I do agree that running 20 regularly is beneficial to those training for HMs and full marathons. I think you can do quite well for 10km off of 25km long runs.

ehfjwehfo wrote:

Why the 5/10 combo almost everyday? I always figured it's better to mix up the distances, making some longer, some shorter.

I've read enough posts by malmo on here that I can guess what he might say. I think he would say, if it feels better for you to alter the distances slightly every day, then alter the distances slightly every day. One thing that he's very consistent about is that you shouldn't overthink things, and you should go with what feels right.

Personally, I would say if doing 7 and 7 every day works best for you, do it. If doing 5 and 9 one day, 6 and 8 the next feels better, do that. Perhaps the best quote I ever heard about training was someone, I think Geb but I don't want to say for sure, said "Americans problem with running is they spend more time thinking about running than they spend running." If you are worrying about whether your 15 miles should be done as 4 and 11 or 6 and 9, you might fall into that category.

If I'm not mistaken, "live like a clock" means follow the same schedule every day. Granted he is a fictional coach, this is the advice Bruce Denton gives Cassidy when he's returning to training in Again to Carthage. The point is, get in the habit of waking up every morning for a run, then going out again at a certain time in the evening.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ wrote:

I qualified for footlocker and I did one 8 miler that season my longest run most weeks was 6 miles.

I didn't even know what a "long" run was in high school.

I wasn't great but I ran 12:28 for 2.5 xc as a junior. I ran a bunch of 9 and 10 milers for 60-70 a week in the offseason. I also raced alot of 10ks which were popular then.

During the season, I ran 9 or 10 milers on the weekends and whatever the coaches told us to run at practice. We ran a couple races every week so my mileage was about 45.

Before my senior year I got the idea to increase my mileage by doing some long runs. It took me 2 before I ended up with an injury that kept me out 3 weeks. I rushed back and had problems the whole season. If I had to do it over, I would have kept the same mileage, but just ran it a little faster.

well that never happend and I later became obsessed with the long run and high mileage.

Rock hard wrote:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ wrote:

I qualified for footlocker and I did one 8 miler that season my longest run most weeks was 6 miles.

And you will be a world class runner once you start doing high mileage.

b. denton wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, "live like a clock" means follow the same schedule every day. Granted he is a fictional coach, this is the advice Bruce Denton gives Cassidy when he's returning to training in Again to Carthage. The point is, get in the habit of waking up every morning for a run, then going out again at a certain time in the evening.

And more specifically, when shit gets crazy, stick to your schedule. Tick-tock, tick-tock.

b. denton wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, "live like a clock" means follow the same schedule every day. Granted he is a fictional coach, this is the advice Bruce Denton gives Cassidy when he's returning to training in Again to Carthage. The point is, get in the habit of waking up every morning for a run, then going out again at a certain time in the evening.

Bruce Denton may be fictional, but the guy who he attributes the quote to is certainly not a fictional coach. I don't know whether Jumbo Elliot actually ever said that or not, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if he did.

jack343 wrote:

Bruce Denton may be fictional, but the guy who he attributes the quote to is certainly not a fictional coach. I don't know whether Jumbo Elliot actually ever said that or not, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if he did.

Yes, it was Jumbo Elliot who preached, "live like a clock" to his athletes.

A Gilles Deleuze reference along with a pseudo-existential/grammatical situating of the training week. Impressive.

Someone earlier replied to my post "This whole do it all in singles fad is a bunch of BS. Answer me this MR. 117 in singles "if you are running a late day race, do you do a shakeout run in the am?" If the answer is yes, then why don't you do one everyday?"

My answer is this... if I am running a normal run of 16 then why do a 3 mile run in the morning. That would give 21 extra mile for the week, but 21 extra pointless miles. I do a shakeout before the race bc it makes my legs feel a bit better, but to do this everyday would mean i would have to wake up earlier thus cutting my sleep time. Sleep is a big point of recovery. And i did say I wasnt against singles. I just said you will get more fit if you can handle singles. Also as I said before I do not do 117 every week. I normally do 100-105 with one double a week for a recovery day. Another person said 25% was too high for a high schooler. My answer to that is if a hs kid is doing a 50 mile week how is it too high how is a 12.5 mile run too long? Even someone doing 70 miles a week 17.5 is not too long. If you enjoy the long run its fun. I love to go ut for a long run... that's why i can do 100+ miles a week and still have fun doing it! Well after all that I think you should do whatever makes you enjoy running and that will really make you better. If you are not having fun then there is no point to running to competively.