Frank Shorter Training Principle?

Yeah, he said he averaged 120 miles a week over a career, and that average included time off due to injury and what have you. Also, in Olympic Gold he says he ran his easy days at 7 min. pace sometimes, and usually his morning 7 milers were done at 6 min. pace.

What is Shorter's training now that he is past 50?

Anyone know?

Most 50-year-olds cannot handle 130-140 MPW.

Perhaps your confidence was misplaced. How many medals have we won in the Marathon, 10k or 5K since? I understood what Tinman was saying.

A long run of 20 miles every week...

Does anyone else do a long run every single week? That seems a bit too frequent in my mind. I thought most marathoners got one in every other week.

it depends what principles you follow, but a lot of guys do a long run each week. I know there are a lot of mid distance guys who do 20 or a little bit less very week, you gain a lot from runs that long, no matter what distance you race. The colorado and monetery guys do, and I bet al sal has his guys do one too. I love long runs, I think sundays were designed for them.

Shorter was the poster boy for efficiency. Reason for him not breaking down, and from what I gather really in tune with his body. Just knew when to ease off. I believe his race times would be better if he where a young lad today, and was able to do it all again. Because of better training methods. Also I believe his race times are not reflective of his peak maximal talent. His training schedule called for many races aloneside his diet of high miledge. If he where to peak for two big marathons a year during his time. Oddly enough Shorter seemed balanced even for a high mileage runner. Wish he was a little more fanatical maybe would translate into some mins shaved off the clock.

I got this straight from Frank Shorter: One long run and two very hard run-your-guts-out track workouts per week. The rest of the week run as many miles as you can, as slow as you want. No tempo runs, no VO2 max runs, no LT runs, nothing else. He told me the same thing another poster mentioned, that he didn't write a book because he could put everything he knows and believes about how to train on one page.

Well he apparently found more to say as he has a book on peak performance coming out in March 2005. Perhaps one page of training and 159 pages of filler?

--Stotan

It was in December, 2003 when he said that. I'll be eager to read his book.

Hypo wrote:

I got this straight from Frank Shorter: One long run and two very hard run-your-guts-out track workouts per week. The rest of the week run as many miles as you can, as slow as you want. No tempo runs, no VO2 max runs, no LT runs, nothing else. He told me the same thing another poster mentioned, that he didn't write a book because he could put everything he knows and believes about how to train on one page.

well the 2 workouts were usually vo2max-stuff and the second half of his long runs were done at a very fast pace~LT.

I'm curious about what is said in Olympic Gold. Stuff I've read about Jack Bacheler, John L Parker, and other Florida Track Club members, they used to do most of their runs between 7-8 minute pace. They ran this slow because it was the only way for them to get in the mileage needed to be their best, recover from the killer workouts they did, and not break themselves down.

The track workouts were even harder than VO2 max. He called them "anaerobic". And although many of his runs were slow, I'm sure many were fast and would qualify for LT, tempo etc. He said that except for the track workouts, the rest of the runs are however you feel like running, as he put it, as slow as you want.

I know of a number of HS programs that have a Long Run in their weekly training programs!

Shorter's training makes alot of sense and was very effective. There are many today that pattern their training in a similar fashion........one long run and two quailty sessions a week is not over the top by any means!

Shorter was known for doing sessions like 15x440 with a 50 yard recovery, averaging maybe 62 for the set and going under 60 on the last one.

really wrote:

no one really runs 9-10 minute miles do they? thats brutal, your form would be shit and that pace is just unbearable, if i ran over 7:30s i'd probably run myself off a bridge...

Doesn't Renato Canova refer to it as regeneration? I've heard that his guys run pretty fast.

Yes, DougC, thanks for the setting the record straight. Sounds like his "easy days" consisted of 6:30-7:00 pace.....AT ALTITUDE. So HARDLY the absurd 9-10 minute pace one suggested, and it sounds like he rarely over 7:00 pace (though yes, 6:30-7 is still relaxed for a Frank Shorter type. For those of us, which is 99.9999% of us, who are NOT Frank Shorter-types, then maybe 8:00 pace(or even slower) on easy days would certainly make sense for recovery miles. Though 14 "recovery" miles is a lot.....at least for me).

College Guy wrote:

really wrote:

no one really runs 9-10 minute miles do they?...

Doesn't Renato Canova refer to it as regeneration? I've heard that his guys run pretty fast.

Renato does call easy running that, and it likely is just that (regeneration). But.....again, Renato's guys are NOT doing 9-10 minute miles. Probably 6-6:30....more similar to what Frank did. But again, for non-world class guys, 8-9:00 pace might be equivalent to a Gold Medalist doing 7:00 pace (if a Frank could do under 5:00 per mile for 26.2, and you can only do, let's say 7:00 pace.....then him training at 7:00 pace could be your 9:00 pace, right? So while I disputed Frank's pace, I don't dispute the notion of doing long easy miles for a marathoner, ESPECIALLY when you are getting in the volume Frank got it, AND the intense speed he did twice a week, coupled with some real hard long runs. If you are doing ALL of that, then some real slow miles are necessary if one is going to get in the volume and not break down. Though I wonder if Frank would have performed much differently if he just cut out some of those double-easy-day workouts out for occasional rest days or something shorter. But certainly, there was NO reason for him to change his methods, since it worked for him. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But most of us could not probably survice that much running. But there is only one way to find out: Try and see.........)

so no base phase? just round and round like this all year in the same general pattern?

Sir Lance,

Renato has said that several of his top 800/1500 runners (~3:30) will do 3hr runs at 6min/km (approx. 9:30/mi).

here's the quote:

I want to remember that Kenyans have a very high mileage BEFORE BEGINNING THEIR OFFICIAL ACTIVITY. They run (no more so much today, because there are more schools and also in Kenya some car for bringing guys to school...) from when are 4-5 years old a lot of miles, that build their aerobic resistance. For example, speaking about Kwalia, he went to a school (from 6 to 16 years) 8 km far from his house, coming back in the late morning for eating at home. SO, EVERY DAY WERE ABOUT 32 KM !Therefore, his clear that they don't need more long basic training, but specific workouts. However, they use very long run at slow pace for regenerating their energies and "washing" their muscles from lactate, running in very elastic way, like american sprinters.An example : when I trained Kenneth Kimwetich (1'43"03 on 800m and 2'13"56 on 1000m, able running in about 46" and probably 3'45" but not faster 1500m), the day after specific workouts (I use 3-4 times a SPECIAL BLOCK during the main season, for preparing specific high intensity endurance : f.e., 6 x 1000m in 2'33" / 2'36" with 4 min recovery in the morning, 500 (1'03") / 400 (49") / 300 (35") / 200 (22"5)with 6-7 min recovery in the afternoon) he used to go running in the forrest disappearing for about 3 hours. When I asked him where he were going, he answering "To run 3 hours", at a pace of 6' per km, that for us is very difficult to use because we become bored.So, I explained him (and also to the other athletes, like David Lelei (3'31" in 1500m) and Christopher Koskei himself (winner of steeple in Seville and older brother of Cherono) that, following our methodology, could be better to run only 1 hr for regenerating. But, when they went with my suggestions, the day after were not able to run well ; instead, after their 3 hours, they were able to do every type of lactic work. So, I decided that they could use what preferred for recovering hard training.You must think that running in a wonderful ambience like a forrest is something extremely pleasant, and of sure has nothing to do with running among cars on a road like in Italy, for example. In the forrest, everybody ENJOY RUNNING.So, it's not a discrepancy to hear Konchellah saying that HE WANTS TO GO FOR LONG RUN (regeneration), BUT DOESN'T LIKE LONG FAST RUN !Another thing that you must know is that the groups of training are mixed. For ex., in Iten the old group in 1999 was with Kimwetich (1'43"), Lelei (3'31"), Koskei (8'05" in steeple), Moses Kigen (3'32"), Moiben (2:10 in Marathon), Jackson Koech (62' HM) and some other young. During the first period of preparation, they ran together long run (only difference, the duration, from 15 km for Kimwetich to 30 km for Moiben) and fartlek (classic 1 min fast / 1 min slow, where slow is really jogging). This fact is one of the reasons because their preparation never was very good, and only thru the races they were able to reach a high level of shape. On of the reasons of current improvements of our athletes is that now Bungei, Mutua, Yiampoy, Shaheen, Kwalia, Kemboi, Nyamu, John Korir, Paul Kosgei, Robert Rono and all the young guys winners of medals in Youth Championships (Esho and Kiplangat, Choge, Ronald Kipchumba and Justus Kiprono) learnt to use more individual and targetted training during winter season, so are able to improve their qualities during a period in the past dedicated to rest or jogging without any specific goal.