I believe they were wildebeasts...
I believe they were wildebeasts...
very impressive training!!!
Hoping to get Rodgers, Durden, S. Jones and Pfitzy alongside at some point. Time to badger them some more.and me (I raced them both at Riverside 5 and malmo at Falmouth and both at New Haven 20k):http://www.bunnhill.com/BobHodge/TrainingLogs/training82.htmand Steve Scott for the same period:19825/31: AM no run. Big toe hurts. PM Good session for 800m this week. Ran 3x300, 4x250, 5x200 w/ 100w, 150j, 200j, 200w b/sets. 39s/26s allat pace. (7mi)6/1: DNR - Hip is very sore and big toe hurts.6/2: AM 5mi hip is still sore but ran anyway. PM 10mi good pace, Weights.6/3: AM 5mi, feel better. PM 300-200-400 (39.0-26.4-52.6). Feel tight, not real controlled. (8mi)6/4: Went to SF for Al Franken promo work. Raced cable car uphill. Jogged. 5mi6/5: AM 2mi jog. PM Prefontaine Classic. Race was easy, 1:46.64, outkicked them in last 100. Ran 2mi after.6/6: 10mi easy run with John G.Week: 70mi------------------------------6/7: AM 5mi at good pace. PM 10mi. Good, hard.6/8: AM 5mi easy felt sluggish. PM (500-200-400)(450-175-350)(400-150-300)(350-100-250) w/ 200j, 200w b/sets. 1st 3 sets all 53 pace or better. Last at 51 pace or better. Great workout. (7mi)6/9: AM 5mi PM 5mi6/10: AM 5mi. PM DNR Flew to Ontario (Cal).6/11: 6mi run w/ John and Pete. Flew to Oakland.6/12: AM 3mi PM Kinney Invite, UCB. Race was a bummer. Felt bad. 1st 3:54.1, Walker 2nd, Flynn 3rd. 6mi after. (10mi)6/13: 16mi run in hills around Berkeley w/ Walker. Flew to Phoenix.Week: 77mi----------------------------6/14: 10mi easy, tired from yesterday. Long drive to Upland.6/15: 5mi to stereo place to pick up car. Ran 5mi more later.6/16: AM 5mi PM Ran 10x200 w/ 200j on grass. (5mi)6/17: Flew all day. Ran to track and did some strides and ran back. 6mi6/18: AM 2-3mi PM TAC 1500m heats. Won in 3:39.99. Very easy.6/19: AM 3mi easy6/20: TAC 1500m Final. Race was fast. Won in 3:34.92. Fricker led in 2:54, I took lead w/ 300 to go. Maree 2nd, Flynn 3rd.Week: 58mi---------------------------6/21: AM 10mi PM Flew to Oslo6/22: AM No run PM 10mi hard in the hills above the lake. Nice day.6/23: AM Ran 2 lake laps. PM Ran around the lake + 11x140 hard strides. (9mi total)6/24: AM Ran @ lake PM 5x200 in 26-27 w/200j. Felt good. (8mi total)6/25: No AM run. PM 5mi around the lake.6/26: AM 3mi PM Bislett Mile. 1st Oslo win. Perfect conditions, can go faster. 3:48.53 AR, Maree 3:48.85, Moorcroft,Walker. Ran 5mi after. (8mi)6/27: 15mi in the hills w/ John, Steve and Ray. Wet, cold but nice.Week: 70mi------------------------6/28: AM 5mi easy PM 3mi + 9-9x150 good strides. (5mi)6/29: AM 6mi around the lake + strides. PM flew to Budapest.6/30: AM hilly 3mi PM Budapest 1500m. Race was good, felt tired before, windy. 56-1:55-2:55, 25 last 200. 1st 3:35.75, Walker 2nd. (4mi)7/1: AM Flew to Oslo PM 10mi w/ Mark Fricker, good pace. Felt good.7/2: AM no run PM 6x220 in 25-26, tried to float. Good workout. 8mi7/3: Ran to track, watched races, ran home. Feel good. 10mi7/4: AM 2mi PM Byrikjelo 800m. ran 1:45.05 PR. 1st lap fast 51, finished good. Walker 2nd. (8mi)Week: 61mi-------------------------7/5: AM flew to Oslo PM 8mi around lake 3 times plus some strides.7/6: AM no run. PM 6mi 2 times around the lake +strides. Easy.7/7: AM ran around the lake. PM Oslo Mile. Race was very good. Not so hard. Didn't move quite early enough. Felt under control. 57.3-1:53.8-2:51.9-3:47.69 AR Walker 2nd 3:49.08, Ray 3:49.777/8: 5mi7/9: AM 3mi around park PM Paris 800m. Slow 1st lap even slow 3rd 200. Kicked hard in home straight, felt fast and strong. Beat Robinson 1:45.28-1:45.80. (5 mi)7/10: AM flew to Lausanne. PM 10mi, hot, humid, smoggy.7/11: 8mi along the lake + strides, jogging, push-ups, sit-ups. (10mi total)Week: 58mi--------------------------------7/12: AM 5mi jog. PM 5x200 25-27s w/ 200j-w. (5mi)7/13: 5mi w/ John, Mark & Doug in nice shaded park. Walked 3hrs in 90F!7/14: AM 20min PM Lausanne 1500m. Race was hard. Didn't feel strong before but still went for it. Halfway through just decided to win. Fast 3:32.22, Maree 3:32.7 (5mi)7/15: AM 6mi easy PM Flew to London.7/16: 5mi easy in the park, strides and stretched. Not feeling real peppy.7/17: AM 3mi PM London 3000m. Race was bad. Felt tired from the start. Knew I was in trouble after 1200. 5th in 7:40.5 Moorcroft-Maree-Walker-Koech. (5mi)7/18: DNR - Flew home.Week: 45mi---------------------------------7/19: AM no run. PM 10mi run.7/20: AM 10mi, very hot and humid. Felt like shit. PM 5mi Weights7/21: AM 10mi PM 5mi @ SLO.7/22: AM 5mi PM 10mi up this big mountain behind hotel. Good hard run.7/23: AM 5mi PM 5mi at home. Weights7/24: AM 5mi, was hot. PM 10 x 23rd and 24th Streets. (10mi) Felt good, good run.7/25: Ran 15mi, hot & muggy.Week: 95mi-------------------------------7/26: AM 5mi PM 10mi Weights.7/27: AM no run PM 25x110y hills, fast. Good workout. 12mi7/28: AM 5mi PM 10 mi Very hot, hilly run.7/29: AM 5mi loop. PM 5mi Feel very stressed, too many interviews! Weights.7/30: AM 5mi run PM 10mi7/31: AM 5mi PM 10mi8/1: 15mi run up to Ranger Station and back.Weights.Week: 95mi------------------------------8/2: PM 10mi easy.8/3: AM 5mi jog PM@ SLO 2x(5x400) 400j, 400w between sets. Very good. 55.4, 56.8, 57.1, 56.4, 55.8, 55.1, 56.8, 56.2, 55.8, 52.8. (10mi)8/4: AM 5mi PM 5mi jog, smoggy as hell, felt like shit.8/5: AM 5mi PM 10mi in foothills up the back. Weights.8/6: AM no run PM 600-500-400, 500-400-300, 300-200-400 all at 56.5 pace except first 500. Last 400 in 51.0 Great workout. ½ int. jog b/intvls., 400w/sets. 10mi8/7: AM 10mi 1:00:008/8: AM 5mi PM 10mi in foothills.Week: 85mi------------------------------8/9: AM no run. PM (2x400)(800-400)(6x200)(3x400). 56.8/57.1, 1:53.6/58, 28s, 56.6/58.0/53. Great workout, felt good. 10mi8/10: AM 5mi PM flew to Europe.8/11: PM hard 5mi run, very hot and humid. Slept bad.8/12: 5x200 26-27 last relaxed in 23.8. 6mi Noticed pain in my side8/13: 5mi. Jog Chest very tight today, could barely breathe. Side very sore.8/14: Nice 2000m. Stomach cramps all day. Bad race, luck it was slow. John barely beat me. 4:58.72 AR. 7mi8/15: Flew to Zürich. Tried to run, side hurt badly. Took day off.Week: 38mi--------------------------------8/16: Jogged 5mi. My side still hurts, I saw 3 Docs and all said something different. Feels better, though.8/17: 5mi with Walker and Flynn. Felt much better today. Slight pull in my back by my shoulder blade.8/18: Zürich 1500m. Ran like a turkey. Felt like I was going to tie up with one lap to go, but I didn't. Got passed on last 100, respondedwell but was boxed. Faded to 3rd behind Cram, Harbour. 3:34.188/19: AM flew to London. PM 5mi with John.8/20: AM no run. PM London 1000m. Felt ok during warmup but ran like I was afflicted. Last 200 rigged very bad! No warmdown, got drug tested. 2:20.4 Cram won8/21: 6mi @ 40min, felt good. Flew to Germany.8/22: Köln 800m. Felt mush better, got too far behind, didn't tie up, finished strong. 1:46.67 4th place. 8miWeek: 42mi---------------------------8/23: 8mi @ 50min with John.8/24: PM 6mi w Ray some 150s. Felt good.8/25: AM 3mi PM Koblenz Mile. Race was good, gave 100% last 200. 56-1:54-2:53.5 Sydney and I battled last 200 shoulder-shoulder; won 3:49.72-3:49.75. (6mi)8/26: AM Took train to Brussels. PM 5mi (30min) felt very good.8/27: Rabbitted 5000m for Walker. Set pace 7:55 for 3000m. 7mi8/28: 7mi (45min) run with John and Ray. Left for Stuttgart.8/29: Stuttgart 1000m. 2:17.58, beat Byers and John. Felt good. 3miWeek: 45mi-----------------------------8/30: 7mi (42min), felt good.8/31: AM Ran w/ Thomas. PM Ingleheim 2000m. Race was OK. Didn't have anything left on last lap, lost contact. No desire.Too many races. Thomas won in 4:52.2. I was 2nd 4:54.71 PR. 7mi9/1: Flew to NY. 7mi in CP9/2: 9mi Ran 3 laps, last was fartlek. Feel good, adjusted to time.9/3: DNR - Interview ran very late.9/4: AM 3mi easy PM 5th Avenue Mile. Race was slow 2:58 1200m kicked hard from 200, stepped in pothole. Byers won in 3:51.3, I was 2nd 3:51.5. John and I ran 7.5mi after. (10mi).9/5: 11mi (60min) with John around the park, pretty fast. Flew home.Week: 54mi------------------------------52 week mileage: 4016 miles (77.2mi/wk)43 Races7 800/1000s 2:20.1/1:46.64/1:45.05/1:45.78/2:20.4/1:46.67/2:17.586 1500s3:37.8/3:39.99/3:34.92/3:35.75/3:32.33/3:34.1818 Miles 3:53.8r/3:55.91/3:58.8/3:54.8/3:58.8i/3:55.3i/4:00.3i/3:55.0i/4:00.2i/4:03.0i/3:31.25r*/4:01.3/3:52.68/3:54.1/3:48.53/3:47.69/3:49.72/3:51.5r2 2000s 4:58.72/4:54.712 3000s 7:40.5/7:55h (rabbit)1 2 mile 8:36.62 5k 13:50.4r/13:525 10ks 29:26r/28:47r/27:53XC/28:28r/28:50r
impressed wrote:
They were both beasts!
The fact is, what they did is not exceptional. It was great preparation which put them in a position to compete well.
Most every top athlete prepared in a similar fashion.
They were both exceptional "competitors".
Greg,
If you're reading this, do you still play softball after the 25-k? Damn, I miss doing that (even though it was only twice). --John
scotth wrote:
I believe you confuse GMeyer w/Brian Diemer who has coached at Calvin College in Grand Rapids for about 20 years- w/much success! Both Greg & Brian are from GR, ran for UMich, broke 4 in the mile and had a little success in the steeple.
malmo & Greg are the same age, steeplers from the Big Ten & have held American road records.
Penn State didn't join the Big Ten until 1990. Greg would have owned George anyway.
Aug 8 Riverside 5 mile, Meyer 22:45 (1st), Malmo 23:11 (4th)
Sept 6 New Haven 20k, Meyer 58:26 (1st), Malmo 59:42 (3rd)
Rudin wrote:
Penn State didn't join the Big Ten until 1990. Greg would have owned George anyway.
Ah yes, right you are. As per who would've owned who, I made no suggestion as to which was the better runner.
Yeah, easy there Rudin. This is a great thread about the studs of the 70's and 80's and how they trained; not who was better than who.
And for the record, I would hardly call those comparisons getting "owned". (Scroll down their training logs for two more weeks and see which one almost had a WR, setting an American one in the process.)
Yes, a few of those workouts included Meyer, Rodgers, Flemming, O'Shea, Hodgie, Bickford, Ratcliffe, K. Ryan, O'Brien, Grundy and others. No attitudes, just running.
Actually, Greg and I had many exciting races with each other, some of them not being decided until the final 200m. Greg was 3-0 against me on the roads, 3-3 in cross country and 3-9 in track. I think that all of my teammates would agree, we would have loved to have been in the Big 10 in the day.
Anybody know what a wieght workout would be like for Greg?
Thanks.
Hodgie-san wrote:
The fact is, what they did is not exceptional. It was great preparation which put them in a position to compete well.
Most every top athlete prepared in a similar fashion.
They were both exceptional "competitors".
Still, it's very, very cool to be able to go over their logs like this, much to learn here. Thanks for your work compiling that (and thanks malmo for sharing yours). I would love to see a Durden log, I've heard stories...
It would be interesting to see what Durden was running in Hotlanta in his full sweats.
Does anyone know what Durden is up to these days?
NOTE: Alberto Salazar got a Bronze Medal at the World Cross Country Championships.
AKMarmoset wrote:
Still, it's very, very cool to be able to go over their logs like this, much to learn here. Thanks for your work compiling that (and thanks malmo for sharing yours). I would love to see a Durden log, I've heard stories...
Very cool indeed. I notice that neither did tempo runs and both did back-to-back hard days occasionally. Is there any reason for that?
I think back in the day we did some fairly quick runs on our "easy" days that included tempo, but didn't use the term. For example, I was a low 2:20 runner and often did a 10-miler around 5:45 - pace on what were basically recovery days. That was usualy after a "very easy" morning run oif 5-7 miles at 6:45 pace that usually was faster toward the end.
Also, look at how frequently they all raced. I think they used races as "tempo runs". Take Steve Scott for example, he raced 43 times that year, including 5 10K's. The entire 2008 US Olympic distance team barely raced 43 times combined this year.
Earl wrote:
Also, look at how frequently they all raced. I think they used races as "tempo runs". Take Steve Scott for example, he raced 43 times that year, including 5 10K's. The entire 2008 US Olympic distance team barely raced 43 times combined this year.
Rodgers was one of the better examples of this. He ran a lot of 10ks in the 29-30 minute range usually winning pretty easily. I think these functioned as tempo runs for him. I wonder whether the stiffening of competition on the circuit in the early eighties - forcing him to run harder and yet still lose - was part of the reason he ran into injury trouble and didn't perform as well. I know he was also getting older, and also had been running hard for many many years, but I wonder if he - Bill, I mean - who sometimes lurks here has an opinion on whether the harder racing had an effect. I recall seeing some weeks of his from like 78 and he would run a race, say a 10 miler, on Saturday and would follow it with like a 12 miler that evening and then a 20-something the next day before flying out. Amazing stuff, but possible only if the race is not an all-out effort, I think.
Patti Catalano (Dillon) won something like 44 races in 48 weeks around 1980 - 81. They weren't just tempo runs as runners needed to make a living in the "pre-professional" days.
escargot wrote:
Rodgers was one of the better examples of this. He ran a lot of 10ks in the 29-30 minute range usually winning pretty easily. I think these functioned as tempo runs for him. I wonder whether the stiffening of competition on the circuit in the early eighties - forcing him to run harder and yet still lose - was part of the reason he ran into injury trouble and didn't perform as well.
I think a big part of the reason he did this was for the money rather than as any sort of training philosophy. I would not presume to question Bill Rodgers but I always got the feeling that such frequent racing wore him down and prevented him from peaking as much as he might have wanted.