Ice Baths: Can someone explain to me what they do, proper tempurature, duration and how often tehy should be used

empirical

adjective

Definition:

1. based on observation and experiment: based on or characterized by observation and experiment instead of theory

2. philosophy derived solely from experience: derived as knowledge from experience, particularly from sensory observation, and not derived from the application of logic

3. medicine based on practical medical experience: based on practical experience in the medical treatment of real cases, and not on applied theory or scientific proof

It is empirically known that empirical is a word only made up to make you sound smarter than you acutally are.

Yeah OK that makes sense. They "excel farther"? Do you possess the knowledge that African/Ethiopians do not use medications?

Are you suggesting this is why they are so good? I don't use medications and I am only an average runner. So they also don't use ice baths? How do oyu know this.

And how many evolutionary changes do you think actually occur in humans over a couple generations? And what exactly is "pretty evident"?

Regardless your whole evolution without drugs argument, I don't even understand it. You don't make an sense.

Please do not discuss science and certainly not evolution inless you are fairly well versed on the topic.

Basically to sum up the points of the people who appear to legitimately know what they're talking about (but may just be skilled bs'ers):

1. The scientific studies conducted thus far have received mixed results.

2. Ice baths reduce inflammation so the body is more ready for the next workout, but inflammation may be an important part of the strength gain accrued from the healing process, so by accelerating your ability to be ready to perform in the next workout you may be restricting the increase in fitness that is rendered by the previous workout you are attempting to recover from.

3. Since the science is mixed, this entire thread is basically the conjectures of many sorely unqualified and undereducated people.

The only thing we know for sure...

What they do: Make you gasp when you get in and shrink your package.

Cold causes your vasculature to contract. That means less blood can get it. But your body increases blood flow to keep a spot warm. So when you get out your body is finally able to overcome the cold water and heat itself. Since the area is so cold it needs to produce a very strong reaction. It does that by slamming as much blood as possible into the area, increasing the quantity of metabolic waste removed, as well as oxygen and anabolic materials delivered to the area.

TK1451 wrote:

3. Since the science is mixed, this entire thread is basically the conjectures of many sorely unqualified and undereducated people.

The science isn't mixed, there is no science to justify ice baths.

If your goal is to increase the blood flow to your legs, for whatever reason(s), you could simply go for a walk or take a hot bath. Neither of which would chatter your teeth.

I concur that gasping and package shrinkage occur 100% of the time...

Mark Boen wrote:

FYI, there are no solid studies that proves that submerging your entire legs in cold water or ice water provides any benefits. To date, it is all based upon empirical evidence.

Huh? Did you mean to say "NON-empirical"?

What you say? wrote:

TK1451 wrote:

3. Since the science is mixed, this entire thread is basically the conjectures of many sorely unqualified and undereducated people.

The science isn't mixed, there is no science to justify ice baths.

If one looks outside athletics for a moment:

The first act of the dancers in the Irish stage show, Riverdance, when they come off stage, especially the principles who obviously dance more than the chorus, is to plunge into a huge tub of ice water - real ice water with floating ice blocks and up to their waist.

It may be ‘unscientific’, but they leant from bitter experience, that as that sort of dancing played havoc with their shins, if they didn’t ‘freeze’ their legs as soon as possible after each performance, they wouldn’t last more than a few performances before the pain or injury became too intense to continue on any given tour.

quizzical wrote:

Mark Boen wrote:

FYI, there are no solid studies that proves that submerging your entire legs in cold water or ice water provides any benefits. To date, it is all based upon empirical evidence.

Huh? Did you mean to say "NON-empirical"?

Anecdotal. At least they rhyme.

I don't think icing can be dismissed based on logical arguments or just because no one has been able to come up with study to confirm benefits.

Ice therapy has been used in catastrophic spine injuries to prevent swelling from damaging the spinal chord: (remeber this:

).

The only thing I can add to this thread based on my experience is that you need to be very careful on how cold you go. Your immune system is probably already beaten down if you have trained hard enough to need an ice bath. You do not want to add the stress of getting a chill and end up missing a week of training with the flu.

Ah, Eithopians (sic) ARE African. Why are you saying "African/Eithopian" as if their two different groups or Eithopian isn't a subset of African? You understand Africa isn't a country but a continent, right?

Also, how many Africans (Eithopians (sic) are already obviously included in that group, because, after all, it's IN Africa) can afford an ice bath?

For the ones who can, how do you know they don't use it?

Trust me, Africans and other third world countries depend on drugs. Don't get it twisted. They may not be from a "lab" as we know it, but they certainly have them. Besides, it appears as though you think African runners just run in the jungle and live in hut. They maybe true at first, but once they show promise and win races, they get money and are taken care of.

Lastly, are you really saying that medication is the determining factor that prevents Americans from competing with Africans (Eithopians (sic) included)?

I hope you're still in middle school or high school at the latest, because that gives you a chance to undo all the damage public school as done to you by getting out now or at least getting an education after you graduate.

Of course ice helps.

Why would trainers recommend it for EVERYTHING if it didn't work?

Broken arm? Ice it

Liver damage? Ice it

Eye ball out of socket? Ice it

Is there any profession with more people who don't know what they're talking about but pretend so well than trainers?

Apart from wrapping ankles, what do they really know that is any benefit?

I used to have trainers at my school that would stretch people to the point of tears.

How freakin retarded, dumb, stupid is that.

Stretching ain't supposed to hurt.

Trainers are nothing but ex-athletes who wanted to be more than waterboys, so they made up a scientific sounding job.

Useless!

true ... many are useless but coaches the same.

try this if you want to see a direct benefit from 'ice'

CONTRAST BATHING

you need a bath with hot water and a large bin with icy water or a cold shower for a lesser effect.

Stay in the hot bath until too hot - keep topping up the hot as you go - use a muscle relaxant like Lectric Soda or radox

once you are 'too' hot jump in the ice water bin or the shower - stay until too cold

then jump back in the bath until too hot

then bin or shower until too cold

repeat once more ending on a cold (1minute in the ice bin is enough - longer in the shower

THEN see how you feel and determine then whether it has any merit to it or not

Never have so few knowing so little written so much (with the exception of Malmo).

All you people who think that ice baths, icing, and trainers are useless: please keep doing what you are doing. I want to coach and race against you.

mufafa wrote:

Never have so few knowing so little written so much (with the exception of Malmo).

All you people who think that ice baths, icing, and trainers are useless: please keep doing what you are doing. I want to coach and race against you.

Agreed. There is a reason why the vast majority of professional athletes take ice baths when their muscles are sore.

Trainers are useless.

Or at the very least, a mixed bag.

I can't tell you how many contradictory pieces of advice I've gotten from different trainers.

Ice. No Ice. Heat. No heat. Stretch. Don't stretch.

Man, they just make up stuff to make it seam like they know something.

They're too dumb to be doctors and too unathletic to make it in sports.

Willies wrote:

The cold reduces swelling and increases blood flow to the area, increasing the rate at which toxins are removed and damage can be repaired.

Can someone please provide a scientific definition of "toxins"?

This seems to be a pseudoscience term that floats around in the massage and weight loss world and i'm interested in knowing whether or not toxins,whatever they are, have been scientifcally proven to exist.

It's obvious to some of us that there is a lot of pseudo-science around the subject of ice baths, but consider what I am saying.

Cold water immersion for a few minutes will rapidly reduce your core temperature, which can considerably reduce recovery time.

What it will NOT do is prevent sore legs.