Attention 2:37 Marathoners!

MyGoal wrote:

I'd say a provide advice as much as I ask for it here. I just don't log in that much, too busy with other thanks normally.

WTF??? Is your so-called injury advice usually laced with nonsensical gibberish like this?? Do you actually read what you type before clicking "post"?

I haven't managed to crack 2:40 yet (2:42 best) but that will be close to my goal for this fall, and I think it's reasonable based on a 73-mid half on a windy day. So I can't tell you how I HAVE trained to get there, but I can tell you how I WILL train to try to get there.

First step is a summer of speed. Meaning track season. My mileage will be a little lighter (say 50-65 typically, ranging between maybe 45 lowest and 75 highest), and most workouts will be shorter, faster stuff with plenty of short races (800-3000). This phase will last until early August.

Then I will transition into half marathon preparation. This period, ending toward the third week in September, will resemble the following period before this Spring's half:

2 Mar 08: 72 miles incl 5k + 3k + 2k w/800/400j @ 3:25/km, 6 x 1k + 2k @ 3:15/km, 9 mile LR

9 Mar 08: 80 miles incl 10 miles @ 5:52, 8 x 800 w/60s rest @ 2:40, no LR

16 Mar 08: 56 miles incl unstructured fartlek (poor weather) and road 10k (34:35 - very cold), no LR

23 Mar 08: 85 miles incl 8 x 400 w/60s rest @ 72-74s (v. windy), 2 x 5k w/800j @ ~ 3:35-4:05/km (extremely windy, cold), no LR

30 Mar 08: 103 miles incl 2 x (8 x 400) w/60s standing & 400m jog rest, 2 x 5k w/800j @ 3:23/km avg, no LR

6 Apr 08: 78 miles incl 8k @ 3:32 + 6 x 800 w/200j @ 2:39, hilly 8k race (27:12), 13 mile LR

13 Apr 08: 98 miles incl 2 x (4 x 400) w/45s/400m jog rest, 8 x 2000 w/200j @ 6:52 avg, no LR

20 Apr 08: 30 miles incl HM @ 1:13:30 (48s PB) – knee injury this week

Then the marathon-specific training will begin. Mileage will go up to whatever I can manage within reason (probably 80-100 mostly), and I'll do two workouts per week. These will all be longer stuff, at up to about half marathon pace (fastest sessions) and down to about marathon pace plus 20-30s/mile. Stuff like 3 x 3 miles, 2 x 6 miles, 10-12 miles continuous, etc etc. With a long run every Sunday. Every second long run will include some up-tempo running at up to about marathon pace. This period should end toward the end of November (got Philly pencilled in for now).

Good luck, and have fun!

sorry in a hurry. No, I don't read it before I post it. I'm sure you read your posts and tell yourself how amazing you are. "WTF???" That's gold baby, gold!

here:

"I'd say I provide advice as much as I ask for it here. I just don't log in that much, too busy with other things normally."

I\'ve run 2 marathons a 2:40 in 2006 and a 2:41 in 2007.

The 2nd marathon should have been faster but I cramped up at mile 19 and lost a lot of time.

My training was mainly 10 milers each night after work where I\'d start out at about 6:50 pace and slowly pick it up with the last mile or so around 5:20.

I ran a half 2 months out and ran 1:12 and 1:10.

Last year I did 4 20 milers 6 weeks out from the race.

I didn\'t do a lot of pace work and felt good on race day. This year I\'m going to get in some more long runs and work on pace so I can get around 2:30.

I'm starting to learn some things about how to handle letsrun posting. Here are the three stages I've experienced.

1. Denial - These people responding to me have to be crazy. This can't be the norm here. I'll just keep asking my question and eventually I'll get a straight answer.

2. Anger - This is rediculous, the abnoxious quotes just don't stop, I'll show them by responding with a witty jab right back at them.

3. And the stage I'm about to enter after this post - ahh...there isn't really any way to deal with these idiots. I just ignore it and move on, they get off on pissing people off.

Interesting. I've run 2:40 but I don't think I could progress down to a 5:20 by the end of a 10miler. Too quick for me.

You really don't look at the screen while you're typing? Yikes. You really think you'd have to "tell yourself how amazing you are" to look at the screen while you type? Double yikes. Well, I'm sure all your injury sermons are just as "gold baby, gold!"

Thanks, but you don't have to be all philosophical here. It doesn't really help. I can make generalizations on my own. It's not that I can't calculate, it's that I don't want to. Thought it would be easier to just ask someone what they do. A lot of what you find on the web is a joke and suggests running something like 50mpw. I also find that I can't match the tempo pace suggested for a 2:40 marathoner in other programs. I was more curious to hear what 2:37 marathoners do because there are certain levels of commitment and talent required. I was hoping to hear from an actual 2:37 marathon what he/she is able to run for pace. For example, a common marathon pace run is 10min easy followed by 10mi at tempo pace. I'd like to know what paces are run in this case. I'd also like a little history on people so I can find someone with similar abilities. Some people have natural speed and don't handle high mileage. Other people can't handle workouts and just pound the pavement endlessly. All this information would be helpful in giving me a better understanding of where I should be.

80 mpw for a long time, no big increase for marathon, just change focus.

Key workouts - 4x5k in 18min with 3min rest. 20 miler with 5E 5MP(avg5:48) x2. 20x1k with alternating MP/MP+30sec. Most Sundays 2+hrs at ~7min pace. 45-60 min at MP effort(on road, ~6:15 to 5:50).

Went into this 8week block in decent 5k/10k shape.

15:36/32:45/73. 6years running.

MyGoal wrote:

I'm starting to learn some things about how to handle letsrun posting. Here are the three stages I've experienced.

1. Denial - These people responding to me have to be crazy. This can't be the norm here. I'll just keep asking my question and eventually I'll get a straight answer.

2. Anger - This is rediculous, the abnoxious quotes just don't stop, I'll show them by responding with a witty jab right back at them.

3. And the stage I'm about to enter after this post - ahh...there isn't really any way to deal with these idiots. I just ignore it and move on, they get off on pissing people off.

I don't think you've made it through stage 2 yet. I have yet to see you respond with a witty jab.

Whoa, whoa, whoa!!! I can't let the "rediculous," "abnoxious," and "quotes" thing go. Besides, you missed a bunch of stages that are crucial! What in the hell are you thinking! And if you can't figure out what's wrong with "quotes," it's quotations. Quote is a verb and quotation is a noun. There are instances where you'd use the word quote as a noun: if you are calling about insurance or a price on something, for instance. Please don't use it as a noun otherwise.

Work off of a two or three week cycle. Get in a long run at least two out of every three weekends (the other weekends could be races or mile repeats or a run of between 15 and 18 miles. Spend at least a third of the year working on your 5K and 10K times. It'd be good if you could run below 33:15 for 10K and below 16:15 minutes for 5K, but it's not absolutely necessary. You better be an aerobic animal if you can't do that. Your mileage should be somewhere between 65 and 90. Try to cross train beforehand. Do prehab, not rehab. Ice your legs after every hard workout. Repeat 1000s, miles, 2400s, and two miles would be useful, but there should be a time when you are doing faster, shorter repeats on the track. Set up an overall weightlifting program where you are concentrating on building strength, not endurance. And, by the way, I often reread my posts and think how smart I am. And then I go to the mirror and sing how I am "oh so pretty!", and then I come back and reread my posts. Good luck with your reallyreallygaygaygoals!

A 2:37 isn't much different from a 2:40 to be honest. My progressions went from 2:40 to 2:30 to 2:22 (note: not under) and then back up to a 2:26. When I ran my 2:40 I paced it really well. I had a great track season (29:35 10k PR) and took the summer real easy running only about 50 mile weeks (compared to my 90-100 mi weeks). My friend called me up and asked me to pace him for 2:40 and I did. Then after that started training specifically for the trials. the biggest thing I did was stop running doubles. I had a full time job and the doubles started taking their toll. So instead of a 6 miler in the morning and a 60 min run in the evening I bumped my run to 70-90 min (75-80 was the norm). This really helped me feel good all the way up to 23 miles. I would start to push at 18 and always felt strong. I was never one for the longer than marathon runs, but I needed them. I always dropped off about 10 sec per mile those last 3. If you have the time, and the energy do 203 runs 26 miles or longer and bring lots of water.

Who could find the time to do 203 runs of 26 or more miles? There are only 365 days in a year? What? Are you an idiot? I think he'd be fine if he could do two or three runs longer than 24 miles. That's sound advice! 203 runs longer than 26 miles! Rediculous!

1st marathon in 2:37:36 off of 12 weeks of purposeful training.

50-70mpw (avg 60mpw with 0-1 rest days), running to work and back (4-5miles one way).

Key workouts included 3min @530 pace and 2 min easy up until goal of 12x3min in one session on the road. Also built my long run on the weekend from 10miles to 22miles. ran 22 miles weeks 7, 8,10 @6:15-6:30pace

I didn't run with a watch most days, but ran by percieved effort.

Week 9, ran a 10mile race in 55:47 (goal <55min). the week prior to the 10miler I ran 12x800 at 2:45 pace. the last two weeks I tapered based on Jack Daniels running formula with the 3x2mile at 11min pace, etc.

Race strategy included running with people who knew what they were doing and starting up at the front. Ran 5:45 pace first 13miles (felt great but had goal <2:37 and went through half in 1:16) and intentionally slowed to 6:00 per mile alternating with another runner until mile 22. From mile 22-26 it was hell and I wanted to quit, but maintained 6:30-7:00 min pace. I used GU every hour and right before the race and drank lots of gatorade and water throughout.

it worked for me, but I think I have a knack for longer distances - ran 10K in 33:20 @17years old and hadn't raced in close to 8 years before deciding to run the marathon. I guess I had fresh legs.

Train like the Hansons.

I love it! 2-3 runs of 26 miles or longer. You ok now?

Hi,

I trained for 12 weeks approximately.

- average week : 80 to 90 km

- a lot of 10 to 15*300m, 12 to 15*400m, 10* 500m. during the 6 first weeks.

- then 1 session/week at 10km race pace. long hills occasionelly (4km/ 12%).

- 10 long runs (between 2h00 and 2h30) with 20 to 45' run at half marathon pace.

-last 2 weeks easy with 10 days before 3* 2000m: 6'30 and 2 short sessions with 10*400m (1'12) and 20* 200m.

- 2 races during this period: both very bad (15km flat: 54'30...)

I can't run more kilometers without becoming very tired (muscle soreness).

my best: 10Km : 33' Half marathon: 1h13

Okay! Phew, that makes a lot more sense. I don't know what the hell you were thinking before. You really are a spacy cowboy. Do you know that? 203 runs of over 26 miles would have really hurt that guy, so it's good we got that cleared up before he tried to do that. Offering advice on this board is a great responsibility, and it's fortunate that you learned quickly that words have the power to help and the power to hurt. You don't want to hurt somebody, do you cowboy? See?

Plan A: Run the Chicago Marathon

Plan B: Refer to Plan A

There's not a whole lot of difference between the training for a 2:35 marathon or a 2:40 marathon. It's mostly just experience in racing the distance and the course itself as well as the weather. Just be consistent.

On a cool Chicago morning on that flat course you might run 2:32. On a warmish April morning with a semi-hilly course you might run 2:40.

A few things:

1. If you can't run your goal pace at the end of a long run then how can you expect to run your goal face and FINISH at the start of a long marathon? Workout: 10 miles easy/10 miles at marathon pace

2. A body that is more effecient will be effecient no matter what the speed. Workout: Something much faster than race pace. I like mile repeats, you might like 400s. Just do something to "rev the engine"

3. If you are going to race for 2 hours and 37 minutes how can you expect to do that most effectively if you've never been on your feet for that long? Workout: Long runs at race duration. Pace doesn't matter. Just be out there putting one foot in front of the other for at least the duration of your event.

Alan