800m time = contract

yeah i run 48 point for the 400m but have never been a very strong runner, my mile pr is like 4:29...

so basicially what i am getting is no one has a clue how they decide who to give contracts to...

thats what sucks about running, if i were to run 1:46 and be in the top 10 in the nation i get nothing were if i can throw a 90mph fast ball in high school, even if i suck i will get drafted and can spend 10 years in the minors and make $50,000 a year....

oh well, lots of engineering jobs pay $60,000 to start...

i know, does anyone have the number to BALCO labs???

EQUALLY as important as salary is COST OF LIVING. Don't be a dumbass and take a job in a high cost place like NYC / Chicago / San Fran for $60k. $60k in NYC is like making $25k in other places. Do your homework and do a cost of living anaylysis. You might actually have more left over cash as a runner in a low rent area than you would be making $60k in some city.

yeah st. louis has a low cost of living...(where my job is)

maybe i can run with my job...

i should get them to sponsor me by letting me only work 30 hours a week and get paid for 40...

If you currently can't break a 47 400 that does not mean you should move up. 47 is a great time, and you can build upon that. You can improve your endurance and speed. Just because you run a 47 this year doesnt mean you cant get down to 46. Thats absolutly ridiculous that you would even suggest that. Every 800 runner who can run 46 for the 400 was once a 47, and once a 48 and so on at some point in their life. If your advice was sound and people took it then there would be NO 800 RUNNERS in the whole world

true, but it sounds like this 800 runner has been around the block already, if he's concerned about money.

i'll bet that he already does a lot of speedwork (long and short), but if he thinks he can realistically improve upon his quarter then fine.

in either case, he's lacking in aerobic endurance. that should be priority #1.

DeRo wrote:

Don't run for the materialistic/financial gain as this is the true way to failure. Get your priorities right

Train hard, work hard, live correctly and race smart. If you do this, then you will run quickly and the money men will find you when you produce the goods.

I dont know whether some people from Africa would agree with you ;-)

1:48 guy wrote:yeah i run 48 point for the 400m but have never been a very strong runner, my mile pr is like 4:29...

Let me get this straight...

You can run 48-point for the 400, 1:48 for the 800. . .and your mile PR is 4:29?!?!

No secrets here. You want to run 1:45? Work on running sub-4:05. Hit the roads, bud.

Yeah, I agree ZatOpek,

I just read on another training board today (and I am paraphrasing a guy who knows his stuff) about how Lydiard is quick to note that while Snell was the "slowest" of all the finlists in Rome, he won by being able to "outsprint" them in the end (superior endurance).

trackhead! Steve Ovett was a 47 quartermiler but he ran 1.44.01 and won the 1980 oly games. I think its foolish to say that you cant do shit in the 8 without having 46 credentials. Speed endurance and aerobic ability is equally important. Remember that two 52's equals 1.44 and to run a 52 quarter relaxed you dont need killer speed. 48 leg speed will do the trick if you got the aerobic side of things as well.

Just my 2 cents

Trouble is, you don't have any real idea what your potential is at 800. Your 4:29 mile PR shows you are so weak aerobically there is no way to know how well you might carry your speed through 800 if you actually had a base.

MC Jasper wrote:

trackhead! Steve Ovett was a 47 quartermiler but he ran 1.44.01 and won the 1980 oly games. I think its foolish to say that you cant do shit in the 8 without having 46 credentials. Speed endurance and aerobic ability is equally important. Remember that two 52's equals 1.44 and to run a 52 quarter relaxed you dont need killer speed. 48 leg speed will do the trick if you got the aerobic side of things as well.

Just my 2 cents

yes he did but look at the times today

2003 World Championship 800m FinalPos Lane Bib Athlete Country Mark 1 8 18 Saïd-Guerni Djabir ALG 1:44.81 2 6 1162 Borzakovskiy Yuriy RUS 1:44.84 3 3 1146 Mulaudzi Mbulaeni RSA 1:44.90 4 5 342 Kipketer Wilson DEN 1:45.23 5 4 717 Longo Andrea ITA 1:45.43 (SB) 6 1 811 Koech Justus KEN 1:45.63 7 7 1150 Sepeng Hezekiél RSA 1:45.74 8 2 168 dos Santos Osmar Barbosa BRA 1:46.28the slowest PR of the medalists was 1:43.25, and of the two finals with PRs outside of 1:44.0 one ran his at alititude and has only been running on an int'l level for 2 years.

I'm not saying "give it up" but do what Ovett did. He ran 800m and 1500m. Do not focus only on the 800 because you don't have the speed to do so.

Pull an Ovett or a Coe and race them both. But train like they did. And they certainly didn't have 4:20 whatever mile PRs.

Trackhead, every time you get on this board you say dumb shit. You should stay off your computer and go do a second run. As far as the contract goes, your best bet would get in with runners with like ability and train hard. If it was meant to be you will survive.

I disagree with Trackhead's assertion that 1:48 guy must do both the 800 and 1500, but the posts are not bad. He comes with stats, opinions, a little reasoning, and some Lydiard plugging. Your suggestion is that 800 guy should train hard...Great.

Mickey D. wrote:

Hey Martin:

First year pharmacy grads are getting $80,000. Most pharmacy programs are 6 yr (that I know of), but it's a pretty good pay off.

Yes, I agree, good choice. Behind every good runner is a good pharmacist, why not be your own and cut out the middle-man. And you can avoid Balco's steep markup.

good call i know lots of chemical engineers...

so i am afraid of running too much and getting too slow...

i have greatly increased my mileage to 40-50 miles a week...

how far would you "experts" go with running more mileage....

my 5k PR is around 17 minutes......

some more background i am still in college

Here's what I think:

If you you can run 48.0 you have a shot at running inside 1:45, but you're going to need quite a few pipes to do so.

Say you're a guy who has an absolute maximum of 47.5s 400m speed. You've been doing basic 400m work for several years and that's the absolute fastest you can run. You probably have the potential to run sub1:44. But if you bring down that 1500m PR, you're 800m will drop as well.

I'm big on bracketing, especially for an 800m that is up to a second or more behind his peers in the 400m. Look at Seb Coe's racing program: He brackted the 800m and 1500m by running 3k (indoors) and 400m (indoors and relays if memory serves me) which led to him being probably the best combination 800/1500m man, certainly since Peter Snell, and perhaps ever. Race your poorer events like 400 and 3k and then you're really ready to roll at the 8 and 15.

Guys like Kipketer and Bungei are a little bit different. Pure 800m runners (occasional mile relay or 1k), these Kenyans already have a significant aerobic base at 20yrs of age, so they can do all this quality 800m specific work (designed to reduce lactate build up @ 800m pace). They've got enough tools for the 800, now they can sharpen them. They also have speed on their side. 46s or better in the quarter is a big help. Their speed gives them an edge over half-milers who are not quite as fast over the quarter.

So if you a.) don't have the raw speed like Bungei, Kipketer, Bozakovsky (extreme raw speed), and b.) don't have the aerobic components that the Kenyan 800m runners have, you can't afford to completely specialize in the 800 or you'll run 1:46 for the rest of your life.

Here are some paragraphs by Renato Canova, who has coached 1:43 800m runners:

About 800m, of course a top runner must run 400m in 46.0 or less. Wilfred Bungei, that never was very fast, 10 days before winning Bruxelles with 1:42.52 ran in Davos, in a training-test, 45.07 hand timed, and also Yiampoy is able running under 46.0. About Joseph Mutua, I personally clocked him in 43.9 during last stage of relay last year in World Military Championships.....One of the problems when we are speaking about different distances is that you can obtain the same performance having very different attitudes. For example, if you accept the idea that 800m can be an event having from 40 to 70 % of lactic involvement, you can have at the top athletes like Juantorena or Konchellah or Fiasconaro, coming from 400m, or like Coe, Cram, Bucher, coming from more long distances. For ex., speaking about Bucher, he was a former runner in World Cross Country Championships when was junior, and began his activity running 10000m. In 2001, I personally saw him in St. Moritz (1800m of altitude) running one day 3 times 200m in 21.5 / 21.7 / 21.6 with 8 min recovery, and the day after a 10000m on track in 30:18. So, it's very difficult, if not impossible, to compare different athletes following a table like that one. Of course, we know that for running 3:26 El Guerrouj MUST run 800m in 1:44, but he doesn't need running in 1:42, as he is able running 5 km under 12:50 (probably in 12:40 next year). But we know also that, if Yiampoy accepts to move to 1500, he must run under 1'43" for beeing able running in 3'28", because for him isn't possible to arrive to 5000m.

and on the training of his 800m runners...

Doesn't lots of quality work/racing break down the aerobic capacities of your 800m runners?

Yes, of sure. But in their training during the competition season, after 3 races in short time, normally they use a period of 2-3 weeks for recharging the aerobic system. For lasting a full season at top level, we need think that RACES ARE THE INTENSITY, and the type of training is of volume, for balancing this intensity. Of course, it's possible to train aerobic power not only running long time (during the period of competitions they rarely run 1 hs easy, more frequently 40-45 min a day with technical exercises : this is one of two daily sessions), but expecially using intervals not fast (for ex., 10 x 500m in 1'15" with 1 min recovery, or 2 x 1000 + 2 x 800 + 2 x 600 + 2 x 400 + 2 x 200, rec, 2 min between tests and 5 min between couples, the first one not fast (2'45" - 2'10" - 1'33" - 58" - 26"), the second fast at 90 % of your possibility (2'30" - 1'57" - 1'23" - 52" - 23"). This is a mixed work of volume, that has a base of aerobic, and a development in lactacid.

What kind of lifetime mileage do these 800m runners have? Current volume?

I never did a count about their total mileage. I know very well their weekly mileage, that is about 140 km per week during the preparation period, no more than 100 during competition season. In my count, I consider everything (for ex., km. of warm-up and of regeneration), that are the higher percentage of the mileage (about 60 %). Is not the same running slowly or not running, like many coaches think. A bigger quantity of slow run can help your body in recovering and transforming your lactacid work in performance, maintaining a correct balancement between aerobic and anaerobic system. NEVER YOUR AEROBIC LEVEL MUST DECREASE, if you want to improve !

Would you train a Kenyan 800m differently (who has already run tens of thousands of miles) than western 800m runner who have run very few miles?

Of course, training must be different. In an African, you can think that the basic, natural work of running is already enough, and you have to qualify this, not to build. For a western young athlete (may be also european), you must use more massive run in aerobic way in order to build a base that they don't have yet. In any case, today is a mistake to prolong for too long time the aerobic work in exclusive way : we must to improve at the same time in every side of your qualities (aerobic, lactacid, strenght, ability, rapidity). You must use long run for building the aerobic base, but also very intense exercises for improving your nervous capacity and specific exercises for improving sytrenght. Every 2-3 months, you must leave the basic work, going to specific (for ex., lactacid tests), for a short period (may be one month), and after you come back to the system of before. THIS IS MODULATION !

Now, to counter the assertion that I think that it's pointless to race the 800m if you're not running low47s, 46s...,

Renato says:

Steve Cram, able running under 3:30, had a personal best of 1:42.88 on 800m also if never was able running under 48.5 in 400m (and 47.5 in relay in his best season).

But Cram didn't run 1:42.88 focusing solely on the 800m. He was a 800m/miler, and he could run sub1:43 off of what can be considered sub-par quarter speed because he had the pipes; he ran 8:14 for 2miles! Having the pipes allowed him to get every seconds out of speed possible.

So to end this rant, don't "just" runt he 800. Train like an 800/1500 man, racing from 400 to 3000 (possibly 5000) and you'll run your best at 800 and 1500m.

Getting back to your original question;

Everything is on a sliding scale.

If you meet one criteria, you "may" get a 10k-12k contract, if you are considered "POTENTIAL" and worth the risk.

If you meet two criteria you may be up to 15k-18k.

Three of more criteria brings the 20k plus contracts.

(Then there are the bonuses....) (there are also detractors!)

Krum is easily making 6 figures plus, but he is a World Champ.

Some initial criteria for consideration:

Winning a USA or NCAA DI title. (Outdoors better than indoors)

Running an "A" or "B" world standard

Winning multiple Big Conference titles in fast times

USA or World ranking

USA Teams made (Junior or Senior)

Top 3 finish at USA Nationals

Two things to note:

The USA already has 6(?) guys with the "A" standard in the 800m and shoe companies are backing them, so to break in to the money you will have to knock one of them off.

During an Olympic year the shoe companies are not as willing to pick up new guys, as they are positioning themselves with the proven "Contenders" and sweetening their contracts. So there is less money to go around for new guys and they will often be low-balled.

Since no one else was answering your question......

Good stuff, Trackhead. Nice Renato quotes.

What are you feeling 1:48 guy; lower that 4:29 to improve at 800m or $60k a year?