The Man Who Could Have Run a 1:39 800m

How about that15yr old that ran his first 800 in149 on dirt at altitude. Does that put it in perspective. These guys are born talented that talent is fostered from an early age under intense focus and competition. I don't see any reason to think the 800 mark is somehow less compitive than the 400.In fact if you go back and look at the races themselves the800 has more competition

It's hard to find a "class act" response these days to the cold reality of finishing 4th that Mr. Robinson demonstrated. What I saw in that response was the true joy of the sport for what it is and he was thankful that he had an opportunity even if it didn't work out for him.

Here's a video of the 1984 US Oly Trials 800m. This may have been the fastest 800m through 4th place (1:43.92) at that time. Earl Jones (age 19) lead from the gun (49.X 400m split) to break the Am. record. That was his first year of specializing in the 800m and his major race at the distance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djbGrI9C7JQ

The case for him being the most talented 800m runner ever is based on speed (45.5 relay split in HS while training for the mile), his performance in the 84' trials and Olympic 800m, and evidence of reasonably good endurance (e.g., second place in the NCAA 1500m in 1983 at age 18 in 3:40 with a 52s last lap), and that his career being cut short by a car accident. Coe, Cruz, Juantorena, and Kipketer all had multiple seasons in their prime to test their potential.

Earl Jones was a great runner. Lee Evans and Rod Haley had potential at 800m.

I disagree.

Spartans wrote:

SMJO wrote:

I remember Jones taking a moment to help Ovett after his collapse after the semi-final in LA.

The USA 1984 Olympic Trials was tougher than the Olympic final.

1. 1:43.74 Earl Jones

2. 1:43.74 Johnny Gray Gray

3. 1:43.92 John Marshall

4. 1:43.92 James Robinson

Not really.

Cruz had to run 1.45.66 - 1.44.84 - 1.43.82 - 1.43.00 on consecutive days to win the gold.

I remember a high schooler from Virginia. Ran 47.xx on the 4x4 routinely, and ran 1:47 and 3:53. What was his name? I think he could have been something special.

You do realize that you are replying to a post that is over 6 years old.

cbenson4 wrote:

I disagree.

How about Obea Moore?

Using the hypothetical argument, what would we say David Rudisha could run for an 800 if he had stopped running them after 2011? 1:38?

Fat Boy wrote:

You do realize that you are replying to a post that is over 6 years old.

cbenson4 wrote:

I disagree.

this thread took a couple major bumps in its lifetime

Mark Everett didnt have the metal mind that Earl Jones had.Earl ran a sub 4:00 minute mile..8:40 for 2mile..44.9 relay split..good XC runner..Oh snd a bronze medal in the Olympics; no comparison

Mark Everett didnt have the metal mind that Earl Jones had.Earl ran a sub 4:00 minute mile..8:40 for 2mile..44.9 relay split..good XC runner..Oh snd a bronze medal in the Olympics; no comparison

time capsule wrote:

Fat Boy wrote:

You do realize that you are replying to a post that is over 6 years old.

this thread took a couple major bumps in its lifetime

Another One

Bob Parks wrote:Here's a video of the 1984 US Oly Trials 800m. This may have been the fastest 800m through 4th place (1:43.92) at that time. Earl Jones (age 19) lead from the gun (49.X 400m split) to break the Am. record. That was his first year of specializing in the 800m and his major race at the distance

i looked up his split & it is listed as 50.2

that is too quick based on ideal 2s +ve splits

correction i use to 2s +ve splits is :

correction = [ ( 2nd lap - 1st lap ) - 2 ] * (1/3)

-> [ ( 53.54 - 50.2 ) - 2 ] * ( 1/3 ) = 0.45s

ideal splits ->

1'43.74 - 0.45 = 1'43.29

this was solo & in circuit raced he woud expect drafting from 200 - 400 at 0.7s/lap -> 0.35s better off ->1'42.94

this was incredibly 4th race on succesive days !!!

no way a 20y ole in 1st year at 800 wouda been anywhere close to his best in the final in his 4th race in 4 days !!!

that musta cost at least 1/2s compared to a 1-off

so, i woud reckon Earl in a 1-off, ideally split & drafted to bell aka zurich, in the trials shape was good for

~ 1'42-low

obviously no way near trials shape in games but still got bronze

he definitely wouda been looking to break the 800wr if he'd stayed healthy in mid-'80s & had "normal" development from 1st year in the event with 2 or 3y of "banked endurance" in his legs

he probably couda ended up around the 1'41-flat mark if his career had developed & maxed out...

addendum :

trials report says Earl went out in "too quick 24.2"

that is a suicidal opener !!!

formula i use for ideal 200 opener en-route to 2s +ve splits for the laps is

800 = ( 4 * 200 split ) + 3

( anyone can try it for Big-Man's 1'41.01 & 1'41.09 WRS which went out in 24.4/24.5 from vid analysis )

Earl's 200 split was on course for ~ 1'39.8 !!!

what this means is that we have to knock off something of from the estimate of his finals shape after 3 rounds of 1'42.96

it woud probably been about 1'42.6/1'42.7 off ideal 200/400 splits with drafting to bell

for a zurich, with not being his 4th run but a -off, i'd estimate that as

~ 1'42-flat

if Earl reads this board or someone does on his behalf, he shoud really "know" that his trials shape in a 1-off zurich, drafted from 200 - 400 off ideal splits he couda run

~ 1'42-flat

& i'd add that the conditions looked too damn hot to run an ideal 800 which really shoud be in ~ 75 - 80F & the temperature that day looked lot hotter than that which only over-rides any trivial accuracies in the calculations

( someone can look up temperature at time of the race )

You are perhaps a bit pessimistic here?

According to _my_ analysis, 1:41 very high is about right.

Bob Parks wrote:

The case for him being the most talented 800m runner ever is based on speed (45.5 relay split in HS while training for the mile), his performance in the 84' trials and Olympic 800m, and evidence of reasonably good endurance (e.g., second place in the NCAA 1500m in 1983 at age 18 in 3:40 with a 52s last lap), and that his career being cut short by a car accident. Coe, Cruz, Juantorena, and Kipketer all had multiple seasons in their prime to test their potential.

As far as I know Juantorena ran his first serious 800m in 1976, winning the Olympic gold and smashing the WR in doing so that year. The following year he won the World Cup doing just enough, looking capable of running well under 1:43. Unfortunately he got badly injured shortly after, so he had 2 years of 800m running to 'show his potential' and also began running 800m very late after most of his career devoted to 400m. Leaving aside likely state sponsored ped use, you could argue he had more 'potential' to run under 1:40.

Coe had 3 seasons really in his prime. He was also two seconds faster than anybody else meaning that any WRs would be largely solo runs from the bell. In fact, I think he only made two serious attempts on the WR and smashed them by over half a second each time. Cruz also only two seasons really and obviously got far closer than Jones did (and were similar ages).

Ivo Van Damme ran 1:43 at age 22 in the Olympic Final and was then killed in a car crash a few weeks later.

Steve Ovett was the fastest 400m in the UK as a 16 year old by over a second. He was also the second fastest schoolboy in the cross country championship THE SAME YEAR. The next year he beat Van Damme in the Euro 800m junior championships. Two years later he was the world's best miler and had a handtimed 21 second 200m. Yet his best 800m was only 1:44, although clearly he could have ran a lot faster. But he likely had more 800m potential than Jones

Jones ran fast times for the next two years, and then disappeared, so presumably the car crash was after 86 when he was 22 and ran his pb (still 'only' 1:43). So to suggest he could have broken the WR let alone by two seconds and a second faster than Rushida is ridiculous.

It's a nice story though, and yet another 80's middle-distance 'what might have been. It's almost as though 800m runners back then were cursed.

Mark Everett is not in the same league as Earl Jones! Earl ran a 44 relay split and could bench close to 400 pounds. He was also a sub 4 minute miler on less than 30 miles a week. Earl would of been the greatest middle distance runner ever.