SUB 16:30 road 5k on less than 40 miles?

If I run 40mpw it is a miracle and I can crush 16:30 even being old and crippled but my PR is about 2.5min faster. If you are doing some speed work then don't focus on the mileage but the intervals. It's only a 5k at about 5:20 pace so don't sweat the mileage #.

step it up. ha just kidding.

1. Cut the biking. If you really can't add mileage, you shouldn't be cross training unless you get hurt.

2. Make the workouts hard and as aerobic as possible. Tempos are good, as are long repeats with short rest. Try to periodize it so you're sharper when it counts.

3. Add a long run. Maybe not 20 miles, but 10 should be okay. Which leads to...

4. Add as much mileage on the weekends as possible without getting hurt. I'm assuming work and family is keeping you from bumping up mileage, so use Sat and Sun to get a long run and maybe extra mileage in.

Good luck, and never ever say "any response will help" on letsrun.com

i ran a 16:35 or so in april last year after 8 weeks off due to sickness. i was only running about 40-50 mpw at the time. it can be done.

although, i was in about 14:30 shape before i got sick, and had been running 100mpw.

I have a goal close to yours (sub 17). That would be a PR for me: I was never a runner when I was younger and I have been languishing in the low-17 / low-36 doldrums throughout my 30s, (partly due to measly run mileage due to tri. training, which I love). My plan for now is to just be very consistent, even though the weekly norm is only 40mpw. Better to do 150 miles month after month than 200 mi. one month, 100 the next. On light mileage with little time: Sleep, nutrition and weight are secret weapons. Good luck!

I used to do it frequently. I never ran more than 50 mpw, but my PR was about 16 flat. Not great, but just giving you an example that it is possible without a ton of talent or milage.

I used to do two interval workouts a week, and typically one race. One or two easy runs. That was it.

Thank you too all who responded.

I cut out the bike which is helping the legs.

I did a workout adapted from Daniels formula that was 200,200,800 X2. Hit splits of 35,38,2:35 & 37,36,2:29.

My normal runs have been from about 2 miles to 4.5 miles because that is all i have time for and the paces were 6:10 to 6:40 pace. Got a 20 minute tempo tommorow because I have off work.

Thanks again for recommending uping the pace on the normal runs. That sure has helped.

First race of the season is in 10 days. I will update then my time. Goal is sub 17.

Happy Running

It's possible. I ran 16:37 in hs for xc off of 40-50 mpw. Just get some more quality a few days a week.

I ran a 16:31 on 40ish a week at one point.

Do ALL of your runs on the road. This will get you more used to road racing. It's only 40 miles a week.

5x1 mile - doesn't have to be too fast. Maybe 5:30's to start, and you'll gradually get them down to 5:20's. Do these on the road. Don't worry about the pace so much.

9x (2 minutes hard 1 minute easy) - each set of 3 should be faster...for instance the first 3x(2,1) will be your slowest. The last 3 should be fairly fast.

Almost every run can be a tempo run. Start out slow and pick it up throughout. It'll help quite a bit if you can extend a few runs to 6 miles. If not, don't sweat it.

Personally I never developed enough confidence that I wasn't going to die on lower mileage, but many certainly don't have that problem.

Good luck!

My situation is pretty much the same. Every time I get over 7miles I start feeling my injury from last year coming back.(I think I had tibial tendonitis, not sure though, but I could not run a step for over 2 months) Then I gradually built up to 35 miles per week and last month ran 17:18 on a moderate course. I'm going for 16:30 in April on a flat course.

My weeks look something like this

m. off

t. 5-6miles@ 7- 7:30 pace swim workout 200 wu 4x100 8x50 200 cd and some running drills in the pool.

w. 5-6miles 7-7:30 pace stationary bike 30 mins, lifting

t. mile wu 4mile tempo @ around 6min miles mile cd swim 1500yards and pool running

f. 5-6 miles 7- 7:30 pace

s 4-5 miles of fartlek

s 5-6miles 7:00- 7:30 pace lifting

I'm going to start changing out the tempo for intervals pretty soon.

I spent a summer at high mileage training for Chicago. It was a bomb. I was burned out for miles so after a month off I just did 33-39 miles a week. I would crank out a minimum of 3 workouts a week, with just a mile w/u and c/d. A lot of 5 x 1k w/ 1 min rest, 400's (sometimes on hils) and my longer run of the week was always a tempo, anywhere from 5 to 8 miles. Just did a few short runs on the off days with some strides. Anyway, I ended up cutting :15 off my PR and broke 16 five weeks later. Now I did have a decent base from the summer, so that helped. But yeah, if you plan your workouts well that's plenty of mileage for a 3 mile race. If you work hard you might find yourself hitting a few PR's.

Twenty or so years back up here in new england there was a fellow by the name of Bart Petracca who ran 40MPW and was a sub-30:00 (or better) for 10K guy.

His name has popped up on some other threads.

A sub-16:30 5k IS do-able. One must just run hard all the time.

Here you are;

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=505067&thread=504873

At my top I was only a 16m runner off 80-100mpw. However there were plenty of guys finishing near me in races who only ran 20-40mpw. Of course they probably would have run 15m if they trained as hard as me.

When I cut back to 40-50mpw I became a 17m runner regardless of what sought of sessions I did. Clearly in my case volume was a key factor in running close to my potential.

If you were running 16.30 in college off 70mpw then you probably are only going to run 17ish off 40mpw regardless of how you go about it. That's assuming you were doing some quality work in your college days.

Some guys will run ridiculously fast off low mileage but they are usually freakish talents. I remember Rob De Castella winning my state's 15km road title at 18. He ran sub 45m.and was lucky to be hitting 50mpw. Buster Mottram was running record times off 35-40mpw at 17-18 as well.

Of course they got even faster once they started hitting 100plus mpw.

Simple:

Mon: 8 x 800 @ 3k-5k pace w 400 jog

Tue: 6 miles easy

Wed: 3 x 3200 @ 15k pace w 400 jog

Thu: 6 miles easy

Fri: 10 x 400 @ mile pace w 400 jog

Sat: 9 miles easy

Sun: off

Total: 40 miles

I saw that you posted your runs are around 6:10 to 6:30 pace. If these are your easy runs you are running to hard, even if the runs are short I would still keep them at around 7:00 to 7:30 pace so that your body can recover. But other than that all of the above info should help you out...Good Luck!

I'm not sure his question has been answered.

The question isn't whether or not ANYONE can run 16:30 based on 40 miles a week. I ran 15:48 in high school on 15-20 miles a week. Surely Geb could run a mile a day (or less) and still run 16:30.

This dude though was running 16:30 off of 70 miles a week.

I think it is going to be tough for him to do it. The only real option (other than just running more which he says he can't do) is to go the intensity route, and just bust out tough speed workouts more frequently than he would have.

70 miles a week down to 40 miles a week is a significant drop in mileage. I don't like to be pessimistic, but given where he was at 70 miles a week and having to drop to 40 miles a week, even with a change in training, I don't see him being able to do it.

I'm pretty much the same type runner as the original poster. I've run (16:21) off of 25-30 miles per week. Week would look something like this.

Sunday 6 miles (6:30-45)

Monday 3 miles (7:00)

Tuesday 5 mile workout (1 warm then 5 x 1000 repeats with 1:00 recovery (3:12-15) 1 cool)

Wednesday 3 miles (7:00)

Thursday 4 mile tempo (22:00)

Friday 3 miles (7:00)

Sat. 4-5 miles (6:30-45) or Off day

i have done a lot on a little training...but did find that i needed to regenerate at some point (go back to base training).

After experimenting with a day off in my last year of college, I slowly converted to running every other day - and doing all quality (essentially my off days which used to be easy milage days were replaced with 0 running and instead i stretched and did some light rowing).

at my best at around 40 mpw (4 runs per weeks) i was able to run 23:45 8K, 1:03:00 20k for my all-time bests...i think this worked however because i had been doing 14 milers the summer prior nice and slow once a week (so i had some base & endurance and simply started uping the tempo on these 4 runs) and had 5 years of college milage 70-100 per week 2 yrs prior. First year after college probabaly ave 60 at most (with some weeks less in winter) and 40 (during the second years when i hit these times)

Typical week-

Sun - longer day 10+ (but quick 5:30-5:40 pace)

Tues - hardest day - 8-10 (sub 5:30 - to as fast as 5:10 for some of it - usually a progressive steady state)

Thur - pre-meet workout - 6 miles (did the first 3 progressive 6:00, 5:40, 5:20) then 1 X 1 fast road mile (4:40 to as fast as 4:20) and wihtout stopping 2 more miles (around 6:00)

Sat- raced (any where from 2M-1/2M) and set PR's just about every weekend racing 3 times per month.

my training was pretty much centered around steady states...with no track workouts and no slow days (i actually think some track workouts would have been helpful) but the one workout i really should have done was the one long slower run (that Sun run should have been slower and longer every other week: 15+ at 6:00+)...but i never trained tired since i was coming off a day off in most cases and that really helped me workout faster (yet feel easier) anyway that's what worked for me. This didn't hold year-to-year however, most likely due to too no base phase (as i did not go back to it) so as each subsequent year passed i got further and futher away from those faster times.

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