Doubling

Are you tlaking about workouts? If you are only going to do 8 miles in a day then it is better to do it all at once for the aerobic benefit. I wouldn't do more then 2 doubles in a week personally.

i'm looking for how to reduce doubles when getting closer to the peak. i'm not interested in any opinion that includes double are bad.

There is no sense in doing doubles unless you are running at least 75 miles per week.

I never said they are bad. I just think you are doing to many of them. I did the same think one year and got hurt. Doubles aren't necessary unless you are doing volume training. You are just reducing the aerobic benefit right now. but we'll see I guess.

that is a myth. think about it logically. how is 50 mpw without doubles better than 50 mpw with morning jogs of even 3-4 miles. more running>less running.

I am thinking about it logically. Is it really "more" running, when you are probably better of just doing one LONGER run per day rather than 2 shorter ones? Isn't it better to run continuously at one time of the day to thus improve endurance?

It's more runs but more running. Plus, you are getting less benefit aerobically because you aren't running long enough. The number of runs you doesn't matter. just trying to give you some helpful advice.

yeah wrote:

I did the same think one year and got hurt.

Sounds like sour grapes to me. You tried doubles and got hurt, and so therefore think they are bad for everyone and go out of your way to warn people on message boards.

I didn't start to truly improve until I started doing doubles. And guess what? I started doing them when I was only running about 50 miles a week. I did an easy morning run to ease myself into the increased frequency. Doing it this way helped me eventually get to a level of mileage/frequency that I was unable to get to before. I averaged 91 miles a week in 2007... injury-free, I might add.

i found the truth wrote:

that is a myth. think about it logically. how is 50 mpw without doubles better than 50 mpw with morning jogs of even 3-4 miles. more running>less running.

I don't get how it's more running. It's still 50 mpw

About a year or two ago Daniels and Pfitz answered this question differently and were called to explain in RT. Daniels said there is no difference between two 5-milers and a single 10-miler and Pfitz said there was. Daniels later recanted and said that for anyone not training for the marathon, there is no difference, but that there was some additional benefit for marathoners because glycogen storage and usage is an issue.

This is all from memory, so maybe someone more ambitious can go look it up.

To the OP's question, you just eliminate doubles when they don't make sense in the schedule anymore. What race are you peaking for? What is your weekly mileage? What are you current workouts? The changes in the last weeks before you goal race will vary if you're going into a race phase of your training cycle and plan on doing several key races on the track, or if you're tapering for a single race like a half or full marathon.

I would keep my workouts to a minimum of 30 minutes. So if you start having workouts shorter than that, combine them into a single. Other than that, do whatever is most convenient and enjoyable for you. If you're racing longer distances, in your next training cycle, you might want to lean towards more singles until your mileage really demands doubles.

In "Running the Lydiard Way" Lydiard clearly states that one two hour run is much better for you aerobicly than two one hour runs.

To the OP, you just don't sound very smart son. You really shouldn't think about doubling until your running over an hour a day. 3 and 5 milers are not enough to have any effect on a fit aerobic system.

You guys should check out the malmo thread on doubling. Might answer a few questions on doubling...

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_re...2372073&page=0

Lydiard is not all knowing, there are lots of theorists, he is just one.You are making a lot of assumptions about the OP's training. When he says he is doing doubles of 3 or 5 miles, he is not necessarily saying that each run is 3 or 5 miles. He might be saying that the double is 3 or 5 miles. So, let's say he is doing 8-10 in the morning, and 3-5 in the evening, just for argument's sake.To the OP: Just keep in mind that metabolically, your body is probably not used to going more than 12-24 hours without running. So, phase out some doubles, but keep in mind that you shouldn't run less than every 24 hours or you might start feeling lethargic. Unless you're taking a full day off, which you should just avoid the day before a workout/race, because who cares if you feel lethargic on an easy day?

.truth wrote:

In "Running the Lydiard Way" Lydiard clearly states that one two hour run is much better for you aerobicly than two one hour runs.

To the OP, you just don't sound very smart son. You really shouldn't think about doubling until your running over an hour a day. 3 and 5 milers are not enough to have any effect on a fit aerobic system.

Sour grapes? I ran 17:19 for 5k while doubling and 16:37 while not (hs xc). I ran 15:12 in college and only doubled 1-2 times a week. Sure everybody is different but nobody on my team doubled that much and 80-90% of the team improved quite a bit. I just don't get the logic here. Lets reduce the amount of time your are running at one time to improve your 5k time? You will rarely if ever find top runners employing this strategy. In fact, both in college and hs they stressed the amount of hour or longer runs you should do in a week. I was it bit in hs but generally got a few long runs in. Doing two short runs isn't going to help as much with your aerobic capacity which is important for distance running. I was also at 50 mpw while doubling and at 85-90 mpw while doing it only twice a week. But by all means... why not do three 3 mile runs if you like.

As an amendment I have heard of elite running doubling a lot but at a much higher volume of mileage.

yeah wrote:

As an amendment I have heard of elite running doubling a lot but at a much higher volume of mileage.

Elite's double no matter what the mileage. You should be doubling too.

Jim Spivey's training.

So if an elite runner is going to run 35 miles a week they are going to double? Most elites are over 100 miles per week. Then it makes sense. We had a few elites train with us in college every now and then and none of them doubled. Including an individual that made the final in the 1500s at worlds.

Did you just read the link to the Spivey thread or not? The answer is yes.

Who did you train with that made the final of the worlds 1500 and didn't double? All elites double.

Paul McMullen. At least at the time. The year ran with us didn't quite get of US nats but he was getting pretty old. I think he ran like 3:39. But to answer something you said early about how I should double. I ran 17:19 doubling 5 times a week and 15:12 doubling 1-2 times per week. So come again? Also, just to clear this up are you saying doubling the majority of days or just 1-3 times per week?. Because if it is the latter then I did double when I set my pr. I'm also not counting race days which also include a warmup and cooldown.