Holy shit, nice video
Holy shit, nice video
Final argument to the nay-sayers.
If you are correct and the plane does not take off ...
how do explain aircraft carriers ... planes taking off when the ship is moving?
I see no scientist on here saying no ... other then maybe chemists or biologists (and we know about their math abilities ... wink wink)
Science Expert wrote:
how do explain aircraft carriers ... planes taking off when the ship is moving?
Hey idiot, have you ever noticed the steam powered launcher on the deck of EVERY aircraft carrier, that shoots the plane down the deck?
You may have just posted the most moronic example of anything in the history of the internet.
Are all of you (most of you) idiots?
MOVING AIR lifts the plane. How is a treadmill going to cause the air to move over/under the wings? Simple as that!
End of Thread. unbump......
Here's how this works. Sit plane on treadmill Put fixed point of reference next to plane, Pole, line, etc. Turn tread mill on. If the plane moves forward in reference to the fixed point it will fly, if it sits still OR moves backward it won't Fly.
KISS
Unless the plane is able to go ballistic that is to say produce more thrust than weight then it will take-off Not flying but take off.
4 X 58,000lb of thrust, I say it can push its own weight off the ground. Thats a total of 232,000lb of thrust. The weight of a Boeing 737 is 90,710lb, that gives and additional thrust of 141,290lb! The plane easily takes off.
C Lindbergh wrote:
Are all of you (most of you) idiots?
MOVING AIR lifts the plane. How is a treadmill going to cause the air to move over/under the wings? Simple as that!
End of Thread. unbump......
The treadmill doesn't cause air to move under/over the wings - the plane will move relative to the air because the treadmill cannot keep it in place.
That's the point of the riddle - a treadmill cannot keep a object that is powered by thrust through the air in one place. So, given that the treadmill is long enough the plane will take off.
The only break you get on this is if you thought the riddle stated "the treadmill speed will match the wheel speed" - but it doesn't. The original riddle states the "treadmill speed will match the plane speed" - it doesn't say how fast the wheels are spinning.
Here is an explanation that maybe would help people out.
Lets say under normal conditions an airplane must go 100mph to take off. On the runway at takeoff:
Groundspeed= 100
Airspeed = 100
Wheelspeed= 100
Plane takes off
On a treadmill with the belt going 100mph, plane standing still:
Groundspeed= -100mph
Airspeed=0
wheelspeed= 100
Plane does not take off
On treadmill with belt going 100mph and plane going forward also 100mph relative to ground:
Groundspeed= 100
Airspeed= 100
Wheelspeed = 200
Plane takes off
Does this make scense?
This explains it well. None of us are idiots, we all understand that the wheels don't power the plane like a car. We all just interpret the question differently.
The way I interpret the question:
If the treadmill speed matches the speed of the wheels, that means that the plane (relative to a fixed point off of the treadmill) never actually moves. That means that when the jet engines are turned on, the treadmill speeds up and the plane is still standing in one place. No air passes over the wings and the plane cannot take off.
The way others interpret the question:
The treadmill is at a fixed speed with the plane's wheels. When the jet engines are turned on, the treadmill does not change speeds and the plane is allowed to move forward. If this is the case, the plane does move, air does pass over the wings, and the plane could feasible take off.
The key is getting air to pass over the wings to create lift. So, the plane has to physically move in relation to points off of the treadmill. If your interpretation of the question allows this, then the plane takes off. If your interpretation of the question does not allow such movement, then the plane does not take off.
if you haven't used Bernoulli's principle, then no, it does not makes sense
Huck - These two interpretations are not equally valid. It's simply not possible for a treadmill to keep the same speed as the wheels. Since the thrust comes from engines that act on the air - the plane will move forward regardless of how fast the treadmill moves.
Do you agree that it is impossible for a treadmill to keep a plane still?
wombat wrote:
Here is an explanation that maybe would help people out.
Lets say under normal conditions an airplane must go 100mph to take off. On the runway at takeoff:
Groundspeed= 100
Airspeed = 100
Wheelspeed= 100
Plane takes off
On a treadmill with the belt going 100mph, plane standing still:
Groundspeed= -100mph
Airspeed=0
wheelspeed= 100
Plane does not take off
On treadmill with belt going 100mph and plane going forward also 100mph relative to ground:
Groundspeed= 100
Airspeed= 100
Wheelspeed = 200
Plane takes off
Does this make scense?
you forgot to throw in the scenario in which a high gust of winds comes in and blows the plane off the treadmill and kills the bald headed dude
{get you shit straight}
So basically, the plane has to be moving forward at an arbitary speed before it can take off, whether it's on a treadmill or on a runway.
It can't take off on a treadmill where the speed of the treadmill keeps it in the same place.
OK.....you are right. I thought about this some more.
Please disregard last post.
Best to think of it this way:
Plane engines are on and the plane is going down the runway at 100mph on non-moving pavement. Plane hits a treadmill on the run way moving at 100mph. A car would obviously stop. However, on a plane, the wheels will be spinning more, but actual plane will maintain the same speed. There might be some friction issues depending on the wheels, but in the end, it doesn't really matter what the treadmill is doing in terms of the actual movement of the plane--the treadmill will only effect how the wheels are moving.
Did they do it yet, if not, my vote is on it working. Because the wheels are in neutral. so It does not matter how much you spin them, the plane will move as planned all the same. Somebody post what time it's on tonite....
Blaze
who cares about the plane. they are going to test if cockroaches can survive nuclear radioactivity!!!
If I remember the original riddle, the conveyor belt would and could always match the wheel speed. Applying thrust would cause the plane to move forward, thus the wheel speed would begin to increase, but..... the conveyor belt would and could always match the wheel speed, thus the plane, in theory, would stay put.
The treadmill you tube video proves nothing, and I bet the mythbusters get it wrond as well. The you tube example and the mythbusters will not have the "magical" conveyor belt that can dynamically (and instantly) adjust to the changing wheel speed of the plane.
If the wheels and their purpose is irrevelvant, then why not just put a plane on it's belly and fire up the engines to see if the resulting thrust can overcome the friction?
The plane will take off. The prop or jet provides the thrust, much much more than the friction in between wheels and plane, and you get going fast enough through the air that the pressure drop above the wings provides enough lift to get you airborn.
NASA even drew a pretty picture for all the kids. V is velocity relative to the air, not the treadmill, ground, or anything but the air.
Simply the gayest comment ever.