The Ofiicial SEC is the best conference thread

I never congratulated OSU fans for winning the regular season. My apologies, especially to Flagpole. And, while I'm at it, I'd like to congratulate them for winning the regular season last year too, since I forgot to do that.

Sagarin wrote:

I never congratulated OSU fans for winning the regular season. My apologies, especially to Flagpole. And, while I'm at it, I'd like to congratulate them for winning the regular season last year too, since I forgot to do that.

Since we're congratulating each other, congrats to USC for having BY FAR the best team on paper the past two years yet still ending up with two losses (including one pitiful loss each season) and then winning a meaningless Rose Bowl game, and then congrats to Missouri for getting their a$$ handed to them in the Big 12 championship game for the second time proving that Missouri gets to claim nothing other than they weren't as pitiful as they usually are (but will be pitiful again next year).

Sagarin, you make me laugh. Seriously. I sure hope you don't think I'm mad, because I don't get mad about stuff like this. It's just football, and OSU has proven more worthy than USC or Missouri.

The fact that you feel the need to hurl childish insults toward USC and Mizzou, because you think those are my teams, shows just how mad you are. That, and the fact that you just couldn't find the entire "Are you talking about "The game that would have been the best matchup between the best two teams"? Or "The National Championship". Because, again, those are not the same thing" quote palatable.

I am congratulating OSU on winning the regular season two years in a row, because YOU alone have stated over and over the value of the regular season. So, congratulations.

The problem with the current system can be seen in the Michigan game and in Michigan NOT being selected for the Rose Bowl. The Michigan team that lost against App. State is NOT the same Michigan team that beat up on Florida. Same goes for USC when they got schooled against Standford.

Michigan and Illinois were tied for 2nd in the Big 10. Even though Michigan had beat Illinois during the season it was Illinois headed to the Rose Bowl....where they got tramped.

The SEC is better overall than the Big 10. Upsets happen because teams are more evenly matched. Upsets happen in the SEC (Ark/UK over LSU) because the middle teams in the SEC are leaps and bounds better than the middle teams in the Big 10....and I'm a HUGE Big 10 fan, but I know the reality. Who's better....#5/6 in their league Penn State/Iowa or Auburn/Ark? Hell, UK was 3-5 in conference and I'd imagine they'd be the betting favorite against many of the middle of the road Big 10 teams.

Alan

This is largely correct.

Sagarin wrote:

I am congratulating OSU on winning the regular season two years in a row, because YOU alone have stated over and over the value of the regular season. So, congratulations.

Dude, I know you're smarter than you're appearing; at least I hope so. The regular season isn't important BY ITSELF, and I never said it was. It is ONLY important in the current system because that is what allows you to be in the title game. USC and Missouri (teams you like to defend) didn't do what they needed to do to make that final game. Not sure why you feel the regular season isn't important. It sure in hell is, else you can't claim the big prize. I'd say I value the END of the season more than you do even because you seem to think a second place bowl like the Rose Bowl is as good as the national championship game. It isn't. I value the end of the season so much that I value the steps needed to get there. You just want to make excuses and look at athletes on paper and decide who wins -- and even when two teams play, and your team loses, you still find a way to say it wasn't fair. Take your lumps when they occur brother. I sure do. If the Buckeyes lose, I'll hear it from tons of you (EVEN THOUGH I'VE NOT SAID THEY WILL FOR SURE WIN OR ANYTHING EVEN CLOSE TO THAT). If they lose, then they do. I'll congratulate LSU on being the best team in the country, and they will be if they beat the #1 team in the title game. That's what that game is for.

The SEC is a LITTLE better overall than the Big Ten right now...hardly "leaps and bounds". Michigan just beat Florida (and only two odd fumbles kept it close; Michigan dominated Florida the whole game). Wisconsin and Tennessee played a very close game. Arkansas got blown out in their bowl game. The Big Ten WON the head to head matchup in bowls with the SEC JUST LAST year.

Is the #6 team in the SEC better than the #6 team in the Big Ten? Yes. Lots better? No freakin' way. The great teams in the conference should still find a way to beat the mediocre teams in the conference.

The SEC has benefitted from its reputation. LSU gets in with 2 losses. The way Kansas played last night, maybe they should be upset they weren't in the game.

The SEC is better this year and was better last year (even though the Big Ten won the bowl matchup). Leaps and bounds? Nope. Will the SEC ALWAYS be better? Probably not. The Big Ten is going to have a lot of new looks and better competition with Zook and Dantonio and Rodriguez newly added; running quarterbacks, spread offenses, solid defense (Michigan State). Buckeyes won't be the only great team in the Big Ten.

Flagpole - You can't use the logic "OSU has proven more worthy than USC or Missouri." That's foolishiness. You are using benefit of knowledge you didn't have at the point that the regular season ended. Since the regular season ended, OSU hasn't played a single game. Mizzou has played TWO! If both Mizzou and OSU had ended their seasons at the same time, Mizzou would be in the championship game and OSU would have been in the Rose Bowl. OSU directly benefited from the Big 12 having a championship game and the Big 10 not. And you can't use the Mizzou took it on the chin twice from OU excuse to prove your point when OSU has been on their derrieres since late November. OSU hasn't proven a single thing since then. At least MU has been out there playing. How many times did OSU have to put their "ass on the line" (as you so eloquently put it) twice against the same team? If the Big 10 had had a championship game, you could have easily lost to Illinois twice and gotten sucked out of the BCS all together like MU did. You just don't get what you read, do you? This is not an attack on OSU, it is an attack on the BCS system. If the Big 12 had no championship game, then the same system that put OSU in the championship game would have instead put Mizzou in the final. Just how for off its axis would your world have gone if that had happened? You would have certainly been on this board complaining about it, wouldn't you? I am not saying MU deserved be in the final, but with the information I had at the time the regular season ended, I would certainly think Mizzou should have gone. Looking forward from that point, as opposed to looking back from where we are now, are two different perspectives, and you can come up with two different conclusions.And what is with your playground mentality when it comes to Mizzou? Quite honestly, it's a hoot. You're like a 5th grade girl who doesn't like another girl's shoes so you go and pull her pigtails. Why the need for Mizzou to suck? Why do you care?!?!?!?! Mizzou finishes 12-2 as Big North champions, spanks Arkansas in the Cotton Bowl on New Years Day (playing well against McFadden, while MU's running back breaks the Cotton Bowl rushing and TD records), and we are all supposed to limit our enthusiasm for that because Mizzou doesn't have the winning tradition that OSU has? That makes no sense. What does Mizzou being great this year have anything to do with how good OSU is? Other than we will really never know how well they match up because they won't being playing against one another.

1) Yes I can say Ohio State is more worthy of a title shot than Missouri. Fewer losses, more impressive wins (meaning more dominant victories), and if we're using Sagarin's method of seeing who is good at the end of the season, well, Missouri lost (and sorry, but a Big 12 championship game is counted as "before the bowl season") their last game before the bowl game; Ohio State won its last game. Big 12 has a championship game. If the players in that league can't handle it, then they need to play elsewhere.

2) What's with you and Sagarin going on and on with ifs? If this, if that. You ever hear me say if that "fumble" early on in the Ohio State game with Illinois had been properly called, Ohio State could have won that game and then been undefeated now? Or if Ted Ginn hadn't been injured last year Florida wouldn't have won or at least not by as much? NO! Because it matters not. The only thing that matters is what is. Missouri entered the Bowl Game season with two losses including a manhandling at the hands of Oklahoma in their last game. They had their shot. They blew it.

3) Conference championship games have gotten SEC teams IN the title game the last two years. Ask Florida and LSU what they think of that extra game. It BENEFITTED them. Just because your team couldn't win it doesn't mean it's unfair. They had their shot. They blew it.

4) Complain if you want about the BCS system, but it is what we have, and it is flawed just as a playoff would be, but the two best teams were chosen for that title game.

5) You know me not well at all if you think I would complain about Ohio State missing the title game due to circumstances. Before West Virginia and Missouri lost their last games, I said they both deserved to be in the title game if they won. That would have meant they all had one loss, but based on a tougher schedule for WVU and MU, I would have accepted that they deserved that shot. BUT THEY BOTH LOST; WVU to a pitiful Pitt team and MU got WAXED by 2-loss Oklahoma. Can't be in the title game like that. Sagarin says the strongest at the end of the season deserve the shot. Ok. Ohio State dominated Michigan AT Michigan in their last game. WVU and MU both lost. That ended with OSU on a winning note and fewer losses and the other two schools on losing notes with more losses. Easy decision.

6) I never said Missouri sucks. They had a great season. I've said so many times. Be exicted that they did well against an average Arkansas team if you want (yes I know they beat LSU). They just didn't do enough to get in the title game. They will be mid-pack Big 12 next year where they belong. Not a hope. Just reality.

7) Missouri had a very nice season. If Ohio State gets polaxed by LSU, they will likely drop to maybe even just #2 or perhaps a little lower. I will drop them to #6 perhaps (I'll have to see when all the chips fall), and I probably at that time will have Missouri ahead of Ohio State (as I had them ahead of Ohio State before when they had the same number of losses).

Missouri had a nice season. Cotton Bowl champs and champs of half of a conference. You're right though that we won't know how well they matchup up with Ohio State because Missouri didn't play well enough to warrant that shot. We don't know how well Vanderbilt would matchup either for the same reason. This is why you have to win those games before the bowls start -- so that you get to have the chance to say you're the best team in the country. Right now only two team have the chance to say that -- LSU and Ohio State. We'll find out on Monday who the best team is.

Flagpole Willy wrote:

Sagarin says the strongest at the end of the season deserve the shot. Ok. Ohio State dominated Michigan AT Michigan in their last game. WVU and MU both lost. That ended with OSU on a winning note and fewer losses and the other two schools on losing notes with more losses. Easy decision.

This is why you have to win those games before the bowls start -- so that you get to have the chance to say you're the best team in the country. Right now only two team have the chance to say that -- LSU and Ohio State. We'll find out on Monday who the best team is.

Flagpole, seriously, can you just start providing a table of contents and index so we can sort through your diarreah of the mouth quicklier? I mean, good God. Oh, and nice misrepresentation of what I said, yet again. Yes, the strongest deserve a shot. That means ALL the strongest, OSU included. A playoff would absolutely determine BETTER THAN ANY OTHER SYSTEM who the strongest team is. Otherwise, in your world, we should just pit OSU vs. Hawaii in the champiosnhip game, because, hey, "they won the games on their schedule" and lost fewer games than everyone else, nevermind that they actually played fewer games than others, as you've been known to say. They won the regular season, good for them.

So, come Monday night, the winner of the consolation bowl will be able to enter their name in the four-team hat, joining USC, Georgia, and WVU to find out who REALLY is the best in the nation. Allow me to pull a rather insightful quote from a fellow Buckeye fan of yours: "Are you talking about "The game that would have been the best matchup between the best two teams"? Or "The National Championship". Because, again, those are not the same thing."

Allow me to pull another quote from another thread from another more rational Buckeye fan. And he is right, that, since we HAVE to pick TWO teams, then the decision is correct for the BCS championship* game, however:

"My prediction is OSU - 24, LSU - 17. I think LSU will have a very good chance to have pulled this one out, but it will come down either a dropped pass, Perriloux INT or fumble, or missed couple kicks that makes them desperate in the end without succeeding in tying it up.

Having said all that, I feel pretty certain that either USC or UGA would beat either team if they were in that game, but I agree that they do not deserve to be there based on their resumes."

Sagarin wrote:

Allow me to pull another quote from another thread from another more rational Buckeye fan. And he is right, that, since we HAVE to pick TWO teams, then the decision is correct for the BCS championship* game, however:

"My prediction is OSU - 24, LSU - 17. I think LSU will have a very good chance to have pulled this one out, but it will come down either a dropped pass, Perriloux INT or fumble, or missed couple kicks that makes them desperate in the end without succeeding in tying it up.

Having said all that, I feel pretty certain that either USC or UGA would beat either team if they were in that game, but I agree that they do not deserve to be there based on their resumes."

Brother, I can agree with that. 24-17 Ohio State win seems like a good prediction. At THIS point too, I can also agree that USC or Georgia could beat Ohio State, but equally agree that they do not deserve the shot based on their resumes. This is SO in line with what I've said to date. When OSU dropped to #7 after their loss to Illinois, I said that was about right. I didn't complain that other one-loss teams were above them, because I understood the reasoning for that. 2-loss teams though? Nope. They don't deserve to be above OSU now, and so they aren't.

I'll take it a step further. I think West Virginia would have been the toughest matchup for Ohio State, but they also didn't deserve the shot after losing to Pitt. LSU deserves the shot.

You've got to remember that right now we've been able to see decent wins by Georgia and USC in their bowl games. They've proven some mettle that OSU has not yet been able to prove because they haven't played their game yet. Now, if Ohio State beats LSU, then with them beating the #2 team in the country in the last game of the season (and LSU will be FAVORED to win), and that #2 team coming from the anointed best conference in the history of the universe, THEN I will say OSU is the best team in the country, and rightfully so.

THE POINT is that, while all of that logic is utterly CORRECT, your last statement isn't. OSU will not prove they are the BEST, they will prove that they are worthy of the title of BCS champion. And as both of these quotes and Buckeye fans have alluded to, that is not the same thing as the BEST. So, in reality, you really don't agree with this poster, BECAUSE, he is not saying that OSU will be the BEST, he is simply saying that they were more deserving of that discretionary game.

And, as an avid fan of college football, I simply want to know who the best team is at the end of the year, the VERY BEST TEAM. If that team is OSU, then I would rightfully give them their due. But the BCS title* game does not afford that claim. I think most fans want to know who the BEST team is as I do. I'm surprised you don't.

"The only thing that matters is what is. Missouri entered the Bowl Game season with two losses including a manhandling at the hands of Oklahoma in their last game. They had their shot. They blew it."

The problem is, with the current system, not every good team gets the same shot, which is why a lot of people feel like OSU backed into the title game. A playoff system would help to remedy that. Pretty simple, really.

You know, I don't think even the teams want a playoff, because, if you think about it, getting to a BCS game is FAR MORE significant than winning it. The difference in the payout is so substantial, that teams have SO MUCH incentive to win their conference championship games to get there. That's why OU was "upset" by KSU in the conference championship some years ago, when, at that time, the "BCS formula" would not allow them to drop below #2 no matter what, and they knew that. It's also probably why they managed to play the game of their season against MU and then their defense looked like swiss cheese against WVU. And there are so many intangibles like this, which don't allow for parity during the season, which is why you absolutely MUST have a playoff if you want to sort all this bullshit out and figure out who is best.

Great, so OSU loses one less game than every other legit team, but they might possibly, very probably would have two losses too if they played in the SEC or they played 13 games or they played a bona fide contender in nonconference play like a USC, as they will next year. That's why this entire argument is such a ruse. I can certainly understand the defense of OSU, believe me, I can. And I understand that you really COULDN'T put anyone else in the asterisked title game, but, that absolutely DOES NOT MEAN THAT the best teams are in that game. And to assert that over and over is just the dumbest thing I've ever read. Many OSU fans are saying that they think OSU would lose to USC or Georgia, which is a frank concession that OSU is likely not the BEST team. So, tell me that you are the BCS "champion" if you win, fine. I can live with that. But stop this charade that you are undoubtedly the BEST team.

you guys are ridiculous. cant believe anyone spends so much time on a useless subject as this. and everyone is right. osu deserves to be in the game against lsu. they are the only one-loss team left that won a major conference. cant believe anyone would argue this. its common sense. it also doesnt mean the best teams are playing in that game or that whoever wins is the best team. that too is common sense. there are so many factors at play here that anyone with half a brain could see thru that argument. but as much as a playoff would shut everyone up, we have to live with a bcs champion who may not be the best team. so, live with it, chumps.

leotard head wrote:

"The only thing that matters is what is. Missouri entered the Bowl Game season with two losses including a manhandling at the hands of Oklahoma in their last game. They had their shot. They blew it."

The problem is, with the current system, not every good team gets the same shot, which is why a lot of people feel like OSU backed into the title game. A playoff system would help to remedy that. Pretty simple, really.

leotard head AND Sagarin too,

How does a playoff make anything better? I'm serious here.

Let's say we had a playoff this year. I'm assuming teams would be seeded right? So in an 8-team playoff it would be 1 vs. 8; 2 vs. 7; 3 vs. 6 and 4 vs. 5 right? Well, #1 supposedly gets the easiest game right? How do you determine who #1 is? Clearly some don't think it's Ohio State. If Ohio State had to play Kansas and USC had to play Oklahoma, is that fair? I think so, but would everyone think so? Absolutely not. We'd still have the Strength Of Schedule discussion..."Ohio State doesn't deserve the No. 1 seed because they didn't play anyone; they should be #4 at best, and so on." Fans of other teams and haters of Ohio State and the Big Ten would STILL say it was unfair.

Also, lets say a team during the season was unlucky early on with injuries and lost when they wouldn't have but now if full strength and killing everyone. BUT they have two early season losses and will be ranked 8th. The #1 team then dogs their last regular season game so that they don't have to play that super tough team in the first round. THAT kind of thing would happen for sure.

Ok, so what if you take the winners of Bowl games and put them into a playoff? Well, who decides which teams go into those bowl games? Wouldn't Missouri this year warrant a more decent bowl game than Illinois? Who would decide what is fair there?

You might argue that basketball does this well. True, but basketball has more games in the regular season. Harder for a team to manipulate themselves from a #1 seed to a #4 if it were in their best interest to do so, and even with a 65 team tournament, there are still cries from teams that were left out.

People like Sagarin want to see the best team at the end of the season, well what if a team loses it's only two games of the season the last two games and finishes 8th while another team that also has 2 losses but has won 10 straight finishes at #9 and is left out?

A playoff doesn't solve anything. There are easily as many questions as there are now.

cut the crap wrote:

you guys are ridiculous. cant believe anyone spends so much time on a useless subject as this. and everyone is right. osu deserves to be in the game against lsu. they are the only one-loss team left that won a major conference. cant believe anyone would argue this. its common sense. it also doesnt mean the best teams are playing in that game or that whoever wins is the best team. that too is common sense. there are so many factors at play here that anyone with half a brain could see thru that argument. but as much as a playoff would shut everyone up, we have to live with a bcs champion who may not be the best team. so, live with it, chumps.

Any championship game is to determine who the best is. There are criteria to be met to get into the NCAA championship game. Only two teams this year met that criteria -- LSU and OSU. That another team COULD possibly beat either of those teams is irrelevant. They didn't do enough to get into that game and so they have to sit with their mouths closed. The winner of the BCS national championship game is the national champion, and that means they are the best team in the country.

Champion -- "a winner of first prize or first place in competition."

LSU is the champion of the SEC which means they are the best team this year in the SEC.

OSU is the Big Ten Champion which means they are the best team this year in the Big Ten.

The two of them are playing for the National Championship. Each one is playing the toughest opponent available according to records and polls and a bunch of criteria that put them in that game. Missouri didn't have to play as tough an opponent as either Ohio State or USC in their bowl game, so a win there isn't anywhere near as good as a win in this championship game.

The winner of the national title game is the best team in college football. That's what that game is to determine. To believe otherwise is to allow either fandom or hatred enter in. I would have the same opinion if WVU and Missouri were playing and Ohio State beat USC in the Rose Bowl. I will likely get to prove that next year as it is unlikely the Buckeyes will be in the championship game three years in a row (though it could happen).

Summary -- the winner of the game Monday is the best team in college football.

Dude, you really need to quit the long diatribes. You profess to be a writer (weren't you an English major) and yet you haven't perfected the fundamental tenets of precision and brevity and pithiness.

Indeed, the playoffs would not be perfect, indeed some deserving teams would get left out of an eight-team bracket (though, to borrow from your analysis, that's what the regular season is for so you'd better come to play), indeed some controversy over seeding would occur. However, most deserving, legitimate teams would get a chance, a chance that otherwise escapes them because they sustained a key injury at some point, or played a much harder schedule, or played an extra, very meaningful game, or got off to a slow start but came on well at the end. let's find out who the BEST team is on the grand stage, not merely the team that somehow found the path of least resistance.