weight gain

Some more questions:

What's your mileage now?

What do you want it to be?

Did you lose weight and are trying to gain it back, or have you always been (proportionately, of course) where you are now?

Is this a team doctor?

Do you have a coach?

Hi trackchicka-

it's me, Runnerbabe again. I do not want to preach to you so I'll try to make this brief. YOU MUST NOT BE TRYING TO GAIN WEIGHT IN ORDER TO RUN MORE MILEAGE!! Rather, you should be trying to gain weight in order to live a long and healthy life free of serious and permanent physical disorders. I know- I've been there! It sounds to me like part of you is trying to overcome your illness (CHEERS!) but another part is ambivalent.

I truly hope you are not just "going through the motions" of recovery just to keep others happy. You MUST commit to getting well or you will never accomplish your running goals. You might even end up dead. Try working with a good nutritionist to help you with a healthy eating plan. I don't know what else to say except "I care"!

I think that many serious distance runners can identify with your struggle. You haven't told us a lot about yourself, but any astute observer who has worked extensively with young, driven, female distance runners probably has a pretty good idea of what you are going through right now.

I think it's important for you to understand that the physiology of fast running -- and, more importantly, the physiology of good health -- involves a lot more than manipulating the levels of muscle and fat in your body. Over the long term, to progress as a runner, you need to be a healthy animal. My guess is that, right now, you are not a healthy animal. I suspect that your bones are porous and fragile. I suspect that you are seriously depressed. I suspect that every breeze on an autumn afternoon causes you to shiver. I suspect that you go through each day feeling light-headed and weak. These are not the ideal conditions for developing as a runner and, more importantly, as a young woman.

In the short term, I don't know whether gaining weight will speed you up or slow you down. Nor do I know how much of the additional weight will be in the form of muscle, or fat, or bone, or blood, or an increase in the size of various internal organs (such as your heart). But I'm fairly confident that, over the long term, staying at on below your current weight will hurt your running. It could even kill you. I'm pretty sure that your doctor and others have already told you that.

In my opinion, what you are struggling with is very complicated, both physically and psychologically. I will simply suggest to you that your goal right now should be to get healthy, physically and mentally. Faster running will come later, but only after you get well.

By the way, I was going to suggest that you might want to talk to other young women who have been in similar circumstances. I thought that something like fast-women.com might be a good place to find others. I then came upon this thread:

http://web1.nyrrc.org/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000693.html

Is that you?

P.S. I hope that you will keep us informed of your progress. I, for one, am rooting for you.

When I typed my previous message, I had not yet read Runnerbabe's message. I just want to say that, having now read it, I agree with everything that she has said.

trackchicka,

Now that I see you have posted this at least twice here and perhaps once over at fast-women.com, I have the feeling that perhaps you are not for real and are someone trying to start a big debate. If that is what you are up to, then that is evil to the core. Eating disorders are a serious thing and not something with which to have fun with or make fun of.

If you are for real, then I suggest you talk to your doctor and perhaps ALSO a dietitian, but do not leave your doctor out of the equation. Do what your doctor suggests, and do not go fishing around for someone to answer in the way that you want them to. Most of us on message boards are not doctors, and the ones that are aren't YOUR doctor.

The fact of the matter is that if you really are anorexic and you don't get ahold of it, your body will start to use your own muscle as fuel, and you will lose that way. I don't know the specifics about how to get someone out of the grips of an eating disorder - that's what the doctor is for. Stop listening to us and go see one, and stay in regular contact with one.

Runnerbabe gave the answer the first time. No need for you to continue posting on this subject.

The fact that this is your second post just shows that you are under going the classic "cry for help" (its cliche' for a reason), you are obviously not getting the proper support. More running wont make you any happier, there are underlying issues that need to be worked out. Your infatuation with gaining only muscle is not realistic at this point, it only illustrates that you need to get this disorder beaten or else it will linger your entire life, if it doesnt kill you first. Your running needs to take a back seat until you get your self together, however; running can be a great motivator to get back to normal. What kind of doctor are you seeing? It is my experience that parents and primary care physicians are incredibly easily to fool. i.e. They only focus on weight gain. You need to consult specialists that understand the true nature of your disease: It has nothing to do with weight gain. Dont let the disease linger through your high school career or college. As a senior in college I am still trying to get back to where I was before I ran myself in to the ground as a freshman.

Answer Man-

I too wondered if trackchicka is for real, not only because of the multiple posts (this is the third on this board that I know of) but also because she never has responded to any of the questions posed to her. Either way, most of the advice directed to her is right on the money and maybe others will benefit from it, too. Oldguy- nice post.

Dear trackchicka A.K.A. luckee001,

Please go and get help. Listen to what "been there" , and himmelskip and I have already told (on fast-women.com), and everyone else who has contributed. I'm tired of the game playing on at least 2 message boards. You're eating disorder has nothing to do with running. DO YOU WANT TO BE ALIVE IN A YEAR. IN 5 YEARS. You decide -- go deal with your demons. I feel very badly for you. I care about what is going on with you . . . but you need help from real live people . . . not a message board.

And if this is a joke, or you're just trying to "stimulate debate", get over it, we are.

I don't think that trackchicka is playing around. I believe that she is seriously looking for answers.

I also don't think that she should stop listening to people on this site and elsewhere (such as fast-women.com). There are many people on these sites who have valuable experience (and empathy) in this area. Of course, Internet chats with strangers are no substitute for close medical supervision and treatment.

I think we all agree that she's got a serious problem, and she shouldn't be delaying treatment just because she's not sure what the optimal diet and exercise plan might be at this point. She won't find a satisfactory answer to that question here, or anywhere else.

I'm reminded of an old fable about a donkey who starved to death because he couldn't decide which bale of hay to eat. He wouldn't have found the answer on the Internet, or anywhere else. His mistake was to believe that he needed the answer before he could save himself from his path of self-destruction.

im sorry for those bothered by my posts. I am honestly just searching for help and not trying to start a controversy whatsoever. I'm really sorry if anyone thought that I have. and I realize that I am gaining the weight to be healthy and alive, and not just for running. And I HAVE consulted my doctor and I have therapy next week and a nutritionist. I was just looking for some MORE support from RUNNERS who have had experience with this because it seems like these adults dont understand where I am coming from as a runner. My nutritionist has given me a lot of advice on foods to eat but I was just looking for some more advice from other people. I wish I could ask AMber trotter what she ate to recover from her disorder, like what a typical day was like for her eating-wise. obviously it made her healthy again, and on a plus side she improved running and became a national champion! Anyways i AM getting professional help, and I am just looking for some support from people who may have been in this situation before. sorry for the controvery, Im just trying to get as much advice as possible. feel free to email me at luckee001@aol.com if u have been in my situation and have some advice on foods/ect or just moral support. and if ur an elite runner who has had an eating disorder and overcame it, I would LOVE to hear about your steps to recovery so email me if you dont mind helping out another runner who made a big mistake.

Trackchicka:

I'm sure you understand that, having been burned before by Internet imposters, people are sensitive to the possibility that they are being manipulated. They are also frustrated when they sense that their hard-earned wisdom is perhaps not being taken to heart. I have little doubt that you are honestly seeking help, and I hope that you will not be dissuaded from continuing to participate on this message board. I think that you have raised some important issues, and there are many others who will benefit from this discussion.

If you really want to talk to Amber Trotter, I don't see why you couldn't call her up or e-mail her. I don't know her, and don't know how to get in touch with her, but I doubt that she's hard to find, and I would expect her to be eager to talk to you about all of this. Just don't think that you need to hear from her before you can move forward.

I think that a lot of runners with eating disorders are perfectionists, who often become paralyzed by the possibility that they will slip up (perhaps by gaining an unnecessary pound or running a less-than-optimal workout), with consequences that they will regret forever. I'm glad to hear that you are working with a therapist to explore the psychological underpinnings of your condition. I really do hope that you will let us know how things progress for you.

All good points here - Runnerbabe though, yours are the best.

girlwonder - You have the right attitude for sure. I can't tell you how glad I am to see some women with this attitude. You are right to tell trackchicka to do everything she can do to be alive in the future. That is the minimum for sure. But, even better would be to be alive and healthy in 5, 10, or how many ever years. Who wants to be a 30 year old woman with severe osteporosis? Who wants to have easy fractures as a middle aged or even younger woman? Taking care of bone density is a serious issue, especially for women as I'm sure you know. What a miserable life a person can end up with if they don't do the right things.

trackchika,

As others have said, you need to look within yourself and find out why it is that you need so much support from people you don't even know. If you are going to the doctor and the therapist as you say and if you have a loving and supportive family in a non-enabling type way (hopefully you do) then you don't need us - we can't offer REAL support anyway.

This next thing might be tough for you to swallow, but here goes - many times when someone like yourself looks for "support" what they are really looking for is for many others who have gone through the same thing. On the surface that doesn't seem like a bad idea, but one of the things it does, and what I fear you may be doing, is it almost makes that behavior of yours seem acceptable if many others have had an eating disorder too - throw a wide enough net and you will find many others of course. I'm here to tell you that it isn't acceptable. It is a DISORDER. It is not normal behavior. It is destructive to yourself and those who love you, and for the quality of life that you so richly deserve, it is paramount that you get ahold of this and soon.

I'm not saying you are a bad person. You are an ill person, and looking for "support" in the way that you are doing it isn't the right thing. You are looking for validation that your behavior isn't all that rare and isn't all that bad. People with your condition are in the great minority - even among women and even among women runners. The vast majority go through their lives with a healthy relationship with food. I hope you come to grips with it soon. I've spelled this out before, but I've had some very close contact with friends and acquaintences with anorexia and/or bulemia, and I have very strong opinions about this issue. It is bad. It isn't something that NEEDS to be a part of you. Your illness doesn't define who you are. Kick it before you die.

wow, i'm 5'8 and 105, and i'm fine

I am sure you have been told this, but any weight you gain, be it muscle, fat, or just rebuilding damaged muscle (which, at 5'6" and 90 pounds you must be cannibalizing muscle tissue to fuel your running) has to come from food. First law of thermodynamics. A 260 pound body builder with 6% bodyfat must eat as many calories to maintain that lean weight that a 260 pound fat person must eat - mass can't come from nowhere.

I will read your future if you don't put on some weight, including some fat - a career ending injury involving muscles/tendons whose tissues have been cannibalized to fuel exercise. And that is just what will keep you from running, which is the first step in starving to death involving compromised heart muscle tissue, nervous system, skeletal structure, etc.

You cannot ride the line of making sure every calorie is accounted for as burned fuel or rebuilt muscle. You have to have some fat stores. No-one ever lasts very long in your predicament. Show me a successful runner who is 5'6" and 90 pounds who has raced at that weight for several years.

My weight fluctuates 5 - 7 pounds throughout the course of a day.

Pay a visit to the USATF website and look at height/weight figures for the women - are you faster than these people?

Suzy Favor 5'4" 108

Deena Drossin 5'4" 104

Marla Runyan - 5'7" 114 (and she is a rail). Do you think she needs to lose weight to get faster?

Mary Jayne Harrellson 5'7" 120

Amy Rudolph 5'9" 125

Regina Jacobs 5'6" 113

Nicole Teter 5'7" 125

Cheri Kenah 5'8" 125

Colleen DeReuck 5'5" 104

Elva Dryer 5'5" (I am not sure if that includes the afro) and 115

Answer Man:

Perhaps we have a real disagreement here. As I understand her comments, trackchicka wants to hear from runners who have competed at a relatively elite level because -- among other things -- she is concerned that the people who are currently advising her, including her doctor, may not have adequate experience and understanding in working with really serious distance runners and may not understand the particular concerns, fears, and perceptions of that such runners often have about themselves and their bodies.

I think trackchicka has legitimate reasons for seeking out the advice and wisdom of other runners who have had similar experiences. I know that, during most of my running career, many people (including medical doctors) considered me to be freakishly and dangerously thin, but I didn't believe that they understood what it was like to be a very serious distance runner. Even if, during prolonged periods, I had serious problems with food and body image, I wasn't about to let a fat, sedentary doctor tell me that I needed to gain weight.

I originally responded to trackchicka's message because, even by my own rather extreme standards, her weight (90 pounds) for her height (5-6) suggested to me that she probably was in the grip of a serious eating disorder and body dysmorphia that could be putting her physical and mental health in severe jeopardy. I think it's useful for her to hear this from other runners who have had similar experiences.

Manhasset Trackman, You either need a new scale or some serious help.

Old Guy,

Well, then, perhaps we do have a disagreement. No big deal.

You are right that she has a problem. She knows that she does which is a good thing, and you are right that 90 pounds at her height is too thin.

There is a difference between her illness though and an overweight doctor looking at you and telling you that you need to gain some weight, as I'm sure you know.

Not exactly sure what part of my opinion you disagree with, but I'm guessing it centers around my point about her seeking support. Fine for you to disagree, but seeking support from those who have experienced or are experiencing the same thing isn't necessarily a good thing.

It is common for people to look for "support" from people in a similar situation so that they can tell themselves at least in a small way that "it can't be all that bad what I'm doing because Suzie is such a nice and friendly person, and she has what I have." If not gone after properly, a support group can become more of an enabling group rather than a helpful group. With the number of sites trackchicka has visited and the number of posts on this subject she has posted, it leads me to believe that either she isn't sincere (as I said before) or that she is going about her illness all wrong. I tend to believe that she is sincere, so that leaves just one possibility - that she isn't really hoping to get better but rather to find someone or someones who can validate her behavior. She's looking for someone to tell her that what she is doing or that what she wants to be doing is the right thing - she already said she wants to run more than her doctor will allow and she wants to know if anyone else has a different opinion on it - WHY? - because she wants to do what she thinks is best and not what the doctor has told her to do. Too many people think that getting all the support and advice from others is the best thing. Sometimes, it is a bad idea, and I think that's what she is doing now - a bad idea. She should stick to her doctor's advice, get the love and support from her family and a few close friends, put running on the back burner and become healthy before even thinking of upping mileage or anything like that. If that's what you disagree with, then I'll have to say you are wrong.

I agree that there is a danger that others will be used as enablers. In fact, I think that this is particularly true for girls and young women who suffer from anorexia nervosa, and I understand that there are web sites that are devoted to "enabling" the behavior of these sick young people. You are right -- absolutely, positively right -- that she should steer clear of this.

I do, however, understand why she would specifically seek out other "elite" runners who have dealt with these issues in their own lives -- not necessarily to validate her own opinions or behavior, but simply to give her the perspective of others who have struggled with the mixed messages of, for example, the running world's view that "thinner is better and faster" and her doctor's and family's view that "too thin is unhealthy."

Trackchicka, I hope you understand that no responsible adult on this message board -- and that includes a lot of fast runners and a lot of people who have known and worked extensively with fast runners -- is going to tell you that it's O.K. for you to be where you're at right now. It's not. You've crossed the line. I cannot think of a single elite runner who has been successful in this sport for any length of time while being as thin as you are right now. You need to get well. It's not going to happen overnight. Follow the advice of the people who are trying to help you, whether or not you think that it's going to mess up your cross-country season this year. If you get well, there will be many seasons of good running in the future.