I Want To Be Really Fast And Will Train My Butt Off To Get There--Advice?

I'd say 4:36/9:54 as a sophomore is very good, so don't be so hard on yourself. Especially considering you haven't been putting in major miles, etc. That's definitely on par with what a lot of high-level D1 runners were running at that age. But, you're right that it doesn't necessarily indicate that you're a superstar talent, so you'll have to work yourself up to the top of the heap.

You are right to keep your eye on the long term. High school results mean next to nothing, other than to get a scholarship to the program of your choice (or a walkon spot if you can afford it). My personal opinion is that consistency in your training and goal setting are the most important things to do at this point. Just keep working to close the gap on the top guys, and your talent will reveal itself slowly. Worry about getting into a good (for you) college program and then making the next step up from there --- it's hard to say just how good you can be, just keep training and let it happen.

Interesting post. I really like your plan of aiming years in the future. There's so much you could say to answer this. Where do you start?

I'll throw in my couple of cents worth to get things started..

3Ts

1. Target a distance. At you stage it doesn't matter what it is. Say target 2 miles.

2. Train for that distance. Run longer and faster than your target time for that distance. Train at the target speed - find the rhythm of that pace.

3. Taper for your target race. Don't go into a significant race with tired legs or mind. Feel fresh for it and be up for it.

md

Little things now can pay off dividends in the future. Core work to ward of injuries now and long term would be good.

http://www.smracdistance.org.uk/core_strength%5B1%5D.pdf

That is some good stuff.

Running, don't worry a ton about hitting huge mileage, but take it progressively by season. 120 miles a week is good, but that jump all of a sudden may not be. Say 75-80 for track season, then 85-90 coming into next cross and so on. But no need to jump to 120 right away, you could easily get injured if you don't build up to that, and that is counterproductive.

Speedwork. I don't mean anaerobic, but alactic work would be good. It will make you more efficient, and lets face it, if you can't run low 4:00's(at least) for the mile, it's going to be hard to be elite in the 5k. So not just strides, but throw in some 80 meter sprint once a week, 8-10 of them, accelerate for the first 30-50 meters to top end speed, maintain till 80 meters, then decelerate.

Tempo runs this winter will be better long term than doing intervals. If you can run 80-90 miles a week run some sustained efforts for 20-40 minutes depending on how you feel.

When track rolls around the intervals are fine, but avoid them out of the season if you can(or at least short ones, I would always love this 3*2mile interval workout we would).

For what it is worth, I am not elite, my pr's are good, but not that good(29:57 10k is my best)

I am going to call troll. No one in the top 10 at nationals ran those track times...and there were no juniors in the top 10. the only 3 jrs at FLN were Evan Appel,Joseph Manilafasha and Thomas Porter.

He said Nike Team Nationals, and there were four Juniors in the top ten.

Event 3 Boys 5k Run CC Championship

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Name Year School Finals Points

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Results - Men

4 Sulkin, Steven 09 Elmhurst XC Club 16:23.2 4

5 Brown, CJ 09 Carroll XC Club-B 16:23.5 5

7 Wilson, David 09 Brookline XC Club 16:27.0 7

10 Roys, Donald 09 Medina XC Club 16:30.7 10

Ok I figured out who it is. Nice job turning things on this season, rly helped your team big time. I am from the Northeast too although we have never raced. I would suggest just running season by season and let the future take care of itself. Be patient.

Looking at the results this is either Wilson or Brown.

2/10 troll job.

I'M NOT TROLLING. Thank you to those of you who've posted thoughtful responses.

dog namer wrote:

2/10 troll job.

its wilson

rlynooo wrote:

its wilson

Which makes sense. Looking at the NTN results, it looks like Brookline is full of seniors so maybe he's worried about having good training partners next year. If that's the case, you might put out some feelers to BAA or GBTC for training arrangements. DON'T go behind the back of your coach, though. I'm guessing your coach is pretty good anyway based on Brookline's performance at NTN.

1. Don't lock yourself into doing high mileage. At your stage of development, 1h/ day or so is plenty.

2. Consider the speed side of things at least as important to your long range goals as stamina. These days you need ~ 50 400m and < 4 mile speed to make a national team in the 10k. By the time you reach your peak running years, no one will make a marathon team without < 13:20 5k speed.

3. Train on natural surfaces, and save your legs. Staying healthy means more running, and more high quality running in the long run.

4. Avoid dieting, but eat healthy. The best runners in the world come from cultures eating little processed food, about 75% calories as high complex carbohydrates.

5. Train through races, and save it for when it matters. Less tapering and less spectacular efforts in low key meets means more work in training. Also less chance you'll overtrain and go backwards for all your efforts.

6. Altitude is optional. Nice to places to train sure, but overdoing things happens fairly easily and often above 5000ft.

7. Find a coach who treats you as an individual. You want your training schedule fit to your physiology, your temperment, your needs. It's not you who must fit the training system.

8. Set goals. The best goals are meaningful and attainable. You want short and long-term goals. The right goal increases your motivation and makes training more fun.

9. See the big picture. When in doubt, do what is best for you in the long-term. Sometimes a day off is the most competitve thing you can do.

10. Remember no matter how far you go with the running, a time will come when the training formulas that have served you well may have to get tossed out the window. Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man - General Patton.

11. Most of all have fun. If you aren't having at least some fun, it is probably the wrong workout. This goes for your personal life too. If you haven't got time and energy for family, friendships, and more, then your priorities need adjustment. When push comes to shuff, your support system is what will help see you through.

Yes, train your butt off to get there and you will be really fast

My advice would be to keep the long term goal (to become an international runner) in the back of your mind and to keep the near term realistic goals squarely in front of your face.

Don't worry about far away things like needing to have 50 second 400 speed. These things will demoralize you if you dwell on them.

Set a challenging but realistic goal and then train to meet it. If you can do this uninterrupted for the next 10 years, nobody can say where you will end up. You don't have to set high school records to one day be a gold medalist.

The only thing you need to do is establish a good routine that creates the kind of discipline to carry you through. By this I mean: eat well, don't neglect stretching, be progressive with your training (ie you don't need to do 120/wk today but should have some kind of fuzzy plan to grow your training by 5-10mi/wk per season). You don't have to measure and record everything and you don't have to be perfect from day one, just slowly improve your habits so that by the time you finish HS you roll out of bed in the morning, do your run, eat well during the day, do your afternoon run, get to bed on time, and repeat.

If you do these things you will one day find out where your limits are. You have a pretty good start but nobody can say if you will be a star or just another guy who tried what many have tried before.

One last thing: don't think 2 years down the road that you know it all or have done everything you could if you start to stall out in improvement. It takes many years to figure things out. You will eventually hit some wall where you have to change a lot of things to reach the next level. A lot of people get bucked off the horse when this happens.

No, don't train your butt off!

You might need it later for something else.

Run like Gerry Lindgren. Just do mileage.

Sleep 11-12 hours a day. Run two to three hours a day.

Sacrifice.

Even miler Jim Ryun was doing 70mpw in H.S..

dsrunner, I disagree about the 75% of kcals from complex carbs, that may be the fashionable way to eat, but it is not logical, natural or healthy nutrition.

More fat less carbs is the way to go. Why eat an excess of carbs only for your body to process them into fats?

I had slightly faster times than you did in HS. I had a good coach in a decent program in college and finished as a 3:56 1500, 9:10 Steepler and all-conference in XC twice. This has gotten me about 1/2 dozen pairs of free shoes and some other training gear as a post-collegiate runner. I suggest that you give some serious thought to your academic future because the odds of you being able to earn a living from running are extremely low. I used my running ability to assure that I got into the college that I wanted to and then worked equally hard at getting a technical degree with decent grades. 4 years after graduating I now have a very decent paying job and a lifestyle that allows me to comfortably pursue my continuing passion for running.

dsrunner: I have noticed over the past year that you (like me) try to give sound advice to questions like these. Are you currently coaching hs?

I think we tend to agree for the most part, although I am a 5pace advocate and perhaps believe in more interval work.

I really agree with your post here. To the aspiring star;

Don't get caught up in the mileage trap.Your cross country results show a big improvement and so this year focus on running 800/1600/3200 within the 50 miles that is normal for serious hs runners. If you have any real talent, you can run 4:15 and 9:15 off 40-50 mi per week.

You do need to be able to run 50-52 for 400m by the end of senior year, and you will have to do some sprint work to get down that low.

Good luck and have a great season. These big breakthrough years are a lot of fun.

another canuck wrote:

Don't get caught up in the mileage trap.Your cross country results show a big improvement and so this year focus on running 800/1600/3200 within the 50 miles that is normal for serious hs runners. If you have any real talent, you can run 4:15 and 9:15 off 40-50 mi per week.

You do need to be able to run 50-52 for 400m by the end of senior year, and you will have to do some sprint work to get down that low.

This is the problem with dogmatic coaching. Look at what the OP wrote and consider his results vs. his training:

"I had never run more than about 40 miles/week until this past spring, when I averaged 50-55 mpw during track season. Over the summer, I started around 45-50mpw and worked my way up until I was running 70 miles a week or more for all of August. During cross country this fall, my training was mostly longer intervals (1000's, miles, etc., around race pace) and mileage was 60-65 miles a week. The harder work paid off, and I ran well at my state meet and NTN Regionals and Nationals (I was in the top 3 in my region and top ten at nationals)"

So he posted some pretty decent track times his soph year by staying within the "50 mpw that is normal". Then he took up his training to 60-70 mpw and was top 10 at NTNs. Why the hell are you telling him to keep his mileage down if he obviously responds well to mileage higher than 50 mpw???