although we are not at the top of the game. I think the difference is now we have a ryan hall who go\'s sub 1 hour in the half, a meb who is a silver medalist, and furthermore there are lots of people within the field who have proven they can mix it up with these guys.
We are not the best but we are now becoming able to compete with a more wide range of American athletes on the international level.
malmo wrote:
The 1984 Trials had 12 qualified under 2:11:00, and at least 27 under 2:15:00.
thanks malmo. so..... many less sub 2:15 qualifiers than nearly a quarter century ago. just what I thought.
hey, of course it's great to see we are doing quite well in many of the shorter races, but the point i was making is: as far as depth in the marathon is concerned, the usa is NOT making any sort of significant resurgence. And this depsite more east african immigration than 20 years ago, and many great clubs like Hansons supporting runners with big bucks and training groups. Despite those positives, the hype is not reality: usa DEPTH still stinks in the marathon.
Sorry to rain on anyone's "USA MARATHONING IS BACK!" parade.
Joseph McVeigh wrote:
The very top few guys are better than ever. For instance, Keflezighi has broken 2:10 at the ING NYC Marathon, whereas Bill Rodgers never did (tho he usually was too far ahead to be pushed in the late miles).
Khannouchi ran 2:07 just last year.
But as "malmo" indicated, the depth is not there.
It's similar to the NBA -- a handful of terrific players can score, shoot, rebound, pass, defend, draw fouls, and avoid fouls...but the number of guys who are good at more than one or two of those things has dropped sharply.
If one can resolve the fact that 2:08-2:10 is really good and you can do something with it and 2:10-2:15 and above is merely a stepping stone to being really good one would have the answer as to why there aren't more guys running 2:10-2:15. It's not hard to figure out.
Meb came to the US before High School...He attended both HS and college here in the United States, he has been trained solely by US coaches and has never raced for anyone else...how can he not be American?
96 trials wrote:
96 trials- Steve Plac- 2:12,
Plasencia
Barrios- 2:08, Plaatgies- 2:09 (World Champ),
Plaatjes
Lawson -2:09, Ed Eyestone -2:11, Paul Pilinkington- 2:11,
Pilkington
Bob Kemp -2:08,
Kempainen
Brantley- 2:12,
Brantly
Steve Spence(3rd worlds)
not to bad!
too
The truth will be evident with year end rankings and world lists. A fast look at fall marathons around the world, sub 2:08 is common place now. American marathoners as whole against world standards are just average.
Marathon running is at its greatest levels in participation of the masses which is good as whole, maybe more funding to help develop the americans.
just stop it already wrote:
quite slow wrote:Meb, Abdi, KK are imported...
THEY ARE NOT, you bigoted a-hole.
I can't disagree that he is bigoted, but are you trying to tell us that Meb, Abdi and KK were born in the US? Yes, they are US citizens, that cannot be debated, but there were born elsewhere, so therefore they are imported (well actually immigrants to be more exact).
A lot of 5K-10K guys don't want to shoot their wads too early in their career running marathons.
Also in 1996--Mark Coogan 2:12
Bill G wrote:
I can't disagree that he is bigoted, but are you trying to tell us that Meb, Abdi and KK were born in the US? Yes, they are US citizens, that cannot be debated, but there were born elsewhere, so therefore they are imported (well actually immigrants to be more exact).
Thanks for your convoluted agreement. Immigrants are not imported, at least not since the slave trade ended in the US.
paula R= actoveagan
record should be null and void in my opinion
hell the ethiopian team doesnt even run that fast at Ekidon
Bill G wrote:
just stop it already wrote:THEY ARE NOT, you bigoted a-hole.
I can't disagree that he is bigoted, but are you trying to tell us that Meb, Abdi and KK were born in the US? Yes, they are US citizens, that cannot be debated, but there were born elsewhere, so therefore they are imported (well actually immigrants to be more exact).
Fair enough. Plaatjes and Salazar are imports as well. Make a note.
It is reasonable to ask why the really great marathon runners were born (or have recent ancestry) in a few parts of Africa. It is insulting to immigrants (such as myself) to imply that they are not American.
Yeah, and what about Arturo Barrios?
resurgence? wrote:
as far as depth in the marathon is concerned, the usa is NOT making any sort of significant resurgence.
True... unless you happen to know what the word "resurgence" means. It doesn't mean "best ever," it means "better than it has been." And if you don't think it's stronger than it has been for at least a decade, then you're looking at the wrong results or something.
The new pack of upcoming talent will be undeniably stronger than it has been for years when the graduating High School class of 2007 reaches their peak in 5-10 years. We have so much talent coming up through the early-college stage right now.
Matt Centrowitz will post times comparable or better than his Dad's
Chad Hall will be just as much a threat on the roads as his older brother Ryan. (just to name a couple names)
And they have had plenty of competition throughout High School.
Enough coaches are realizing that we need to go back to the 70's method of high mileage in the offseason. In 2015, there will be very few old nostalgic runners trying to brag how their methods were so much better.
This generation is combining the latest science (Salazar, etc) with the same "Badass, rebel-runner, run-til you drop philosophy of the 70's." The combination will produce better times and more depth THAN WE HAVE EVER SEEN.
While US runners will not have much of a presence on the top 100 list for the year, it is safe to say that the three runners we send to the Olympics will be solid medal contenders. I guess it depends what we consider important. In tactical chamipionship type races, the US runners will be competitive. And it isn't unreasonable that the US will have the the first three finishers in Beijing (or maybe 2nd to Japan). That's not terrible depth.
stipe wrote:In tactical chamipionship type races, the US runners will be competitive. And it isn't unreasonable that the US will have the the first three finishers in Beijing (or maybe 2nd to Japan).Dream on, nutjob.
I appreciate the nutjob comment. To clarify, I didn't mean sweep the top 3, just that the 3rd US runner may well finish before the 3rd runner from almost any other country. And now after the trials, I actually think it is highly likely.
brains or guts wrote:
The truth will be evident with year end rankings and world lists. A fast look at fall marathons around the world, sub 2:08 is common place now. American marathoners as whole against world standards are just average.
Seven Kenyans ran sub-2.08 in Amsterdam Marathon...
Wasn't Frank Shorter born in West Germany?
When was YOUR last 2:15 by the way?