Drugs are so rampant in sports it's almost an axiom.

that's because that is extremely close to the truth once you go to elite claiber...throw the whole f***ing peleton in there too while we're at it....

You have no idea what you're talking about. The idea that everyone is using drugs in track (a sport that has conparatively no money) is ridiculous. You think that there is some systematic corruption that happens from high school to college to the pros?

It shounds like none of you has actually known any good track athletes.

After reading the article on Victor Conte, I'm starting to think elite track athletes are guilty until proven innocent. EPO is undetectable in your system after 1 day! Athletes are tested only a couple times a year, they can easily take loads of steroids in between the tests. I've heard many times from a variety of doctors, athletes, and experts that you need to be stupid to fail a drug test.

People who think most elite athletes are clean are obviously not seeing the whole picture. Here in America, we have different values than many other countries. Lying and cheating are culturally worse crimes here in America than they are around the world. Athletes everywhere will do anything to give themselves an advantage. It would take a naive, sheltered American to actually believe only a few elite athletes are taking steroids. Before 2003, when USADA started tightening their rules, steroids were RAMPANT! Now that tests are getting slightly better, look what has happened: all the distance times have slowed! 2007 is the first year in quite awhile that the world leading 1500m time is not under 3:30. I think we can safely discard most of El G's performances, most of Geb's performances, and most any extraordinary performances of the 90's.

The real is question is: WHO ISN'T DOPING??

You don't have any data for your ridiculous claims. In 2005, 17 different men broke 13:00, more than any other year. 2004 saw El Guerrouj and Lagat run 3:27. Bekele broke WRs in 2004 and 2005.

Conte is talking out of his ass and his only connections to track athletes like Jones. If he really knew a wide variety of elites he'd see the bigger picture.

mobile9 wrote:

You have no idea what you're talking about. The idea that everyone is using drugs in track (a sport that has conparatively no money) is ridiculous. You think that there is some systematic corruption that happens from high school to college to the pros?

It shounds like none of you has actually known any good track athletes.

Look at the how consistent the average Euro Circuit Pro can maintain his fitness compared to the college runner who takes 6 months to get into shape for 2-3 weeks.

I know that Carolina Kluft is tested around 20 times every year like most other world class athletes. A friend of mine ran the marathon in Osaka, and she literally has the doping testers hanging on her door.

Alright, then explain why in 2006 & 2007, times were so much slower than the mid-late 90's. Shouldn't we be evolving, and constantly improving?? Elite times had gotten increasingly faster, year by year, since the beginning of organized track & field... UNTIL NOW! 2006/2007 have marked the first decline in elite race times. Are the rabbits just not doing their job? Are people finally reaching the limits of their ability? I DON'T THINK SO. People are scared of being tested for steroids, therefore performances are dropping off slightly. Also, explain the dramatic upsets and extremely slow times during the heavily-tested World Championships in Osaka. Obviously, there are no rabbits at the WC, but even the 800 was won in 1:47... so the finishing splits must have been faster than ever right? wrong. 800m races throughout the 90s consistently had quicker finishing splits.

You want some data?

www.iaaf.org

go to Statistics and look at times this year compared to in years past

Order Track and field news, and look at World Champs race splits

Read "Game of Shadows" it will get you pointed in the right direction.

"knowing" athletes doesn't mean jack s#$# when it comes to whether they are taking drugs or not. I'm sure you've hung around quite a few track athletes that are nice people. Do you really think they are going to tell you about their doping program?

I'm sure Floyd Landis is a nice guy too, but he's still guilty.

That is true. I trained with a guy for just over a year and he did have a great year but I was still suprised 10 years later when he told me he was juicing. How did I not know? I guess I was so much into my own training and the topic never came up, except when talking about athletes we knew got busted. He competed for a couple good years and never got caught even though I know we got tested a few times and he wasnt on anything special like HGH or "the clear". Yeah so knowing the athlete really doesnt mean anything..

Examples?

Anon stories like terrior terror tells are just so much BS. Give your name and the name of your friend or you are just so much puffery-to sound important like you know something.

sfhesfkh wrote: It would take a naive, sheltered American to actually believe only a few elite athletes are taking steroids. Before 2003, when USADA started tightening their rules, steroids were RAMPANT! Now that tests are getting slightly better, look what has happened: all the distance times have slowed! 2007 is the first year in quite awhile that the world leading 1500m time is not under 3:30. I think we can safely discard most of El G's performances, most of Geb's performances, and most any extraordinary performances of the 90's.

What would USADA have to do with the world's leading 1500m runners in any year prior to 2004?

How was 2006 slow? Two guys under 12:50 and 19 under 13min? That's a slow year?

How about 14:16 ans 14:22? 8:23 indoors? Slow times?

if you can cheat the test, then it doesnt matter how many times they test you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"but there isn't any proof that these people are doping" because many are CHEATING THE TESTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you think that is such an implausible story that it is BS? What world are you living in and that goes for naming a guy I still consider a friend. If u dont believe I could hardly careless. It is just my 2 cents on the topic.

Unfortunately, I suspect that drug use in sports can go as far back as high school. Guilty until proven innocent certainly applies.

TT - Of course no one believes you. I had a friend once who knew a person who had a friend who knew this guy who...............it is all phony to sound important, puffery is the word most often used.........

wasn't JOS HERMANS found to be doping when he was running and is the agent for geb and ken.once a man goes down that sort of a path...i find it hard to believe he would change his mindset against using such advantages.