Why do prisoners have rights?

ok buddy. i hope you get some serious police brutality and 5 years in a federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison next time you get pulled over for speeding or illegally downloading some songs. after all, you should know right from wrong.

Hey, are you by any chance that same dude who was on MySpace crying about Britney Spears? You certainly seem to have the same whining temperament.

i think wrote:

ok buddy. i hope you get some serious police brutality and 5 years in a federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison next time you get pulled over for speeding or illegally downloading some songs. after all, you should know right from wrong.

Well, the fact notwithstanding that going to prison is not a punishment that fits the crimes you've described, your underlying point is correct.

With iTunes, Napster, and the like there really is no reason to illegally download music, but if I was ever ticketed for speeding I would own it. What I would do is pay the fine and go to defensive driving school. What I would NOT do is go to court and fight it, blame the cop for being crooked, cry about being singled out when the entire flow of traffic was also speeding, etc.

Bottom line: You make a bad choice, you pay the price.

Just out of curiosity, do you think Bin Laden and Hitler should have been given a free pass? Maybe they lived in a bad environment growing up. Boo-freaking-hoo.

Shawshank wrote:

I don't give a damn about a kid's environment when it comes to right and wrong.

Could we stop using "right and wrong" interchangably with "legal and illegal"? They really aren't the same thing.

As for your view on prisoners, I have to say that I disagree. People make mistakes. People commit crimes that I can fully understand and sympathise with. Every issue isn't black and white. Take the guy who says that he has never done anything illegal but has been in a few fights, for example. What if in one of those fights you knocked the guy down and he hit his head on the curb and died? Unlikely, but these things do happen. You would, in that instant of bad luck, go from a guy who has never broken the law to a murderer (or at least a manslaughterer, if that's a word).

In my opinion, first offenses should be treated much differently than subsequent offenses. Every opportunity should be extended for rehabilitation on the first conviction (for most crimes). Once someone has shown that they can't be rehabilitated and the offend again, we should throw the book at them.

By the way, there are historical (and some contemporary) examples of societies that worked pretty much the way you want. I don't think that crime was dramatically lower in these places.

You know what is great. If you are homeless and in need, just go commit a crime and get thrown in jail. You get a roof over your head, a bed, three meals a day, a workout room, free medical care, and a boy friend if you are lucky, all at no charge.

The best part is the taxpayers who abide by the law get tp pay for it. If you are lucky enough to get a life sentence, the taxpayers could keep you alive for a good 50+ years, what a country.

I am all for the death penalty for serious crimes, murder, rape,etc., save us all a few bucks.

crook ed wrote:

You know what is great. If you are homeless and in need, just go commit a crime and get thrown in jail.

And yet we don't see masses of homeless people killing people and turning themselves in. This should be proof that being in prison isn't as easy as many people seem to believe.

Shawshank wrote:

Just out of curiosity, do you think Bin Laden and Hitler should have been given a free pass? Maybe they lived in a bad environment growing up. Boo-freaking-hoo.

Of course! they were just misunderstood.

No one is talking about free passes for mass-murderers. You started this thread saying all prisoners should be thrown in a hole with nothing but bread and water, and now you come out with this "punishment that fits the crime" act? i say you speeding is a far greater risk to public safety than i don't know, lets say... the thousands of non-violent pot offenders doing hard time in real prison. it's easy to talk tough when you've never had it tough. let me ask you a question. who is going to do prison time - the guy from the hood who steals a tv or sells a oz. of weed to feed his kids, or the CEO of a giant corporation who pads his pockets with a few extra million that the shareholders will never notice?

walk (or run) a mile in someone else's shoes man.

If someone told you what to do every second of every day wouldn't that be punishment enough? That's like being in high school the rest of your life. Plus no sex...unless you like the gay unconsentual kind.

Alan

You need to grow up kid wrote:

Have a nice day? All you did was compare your cushy happy go lucky lifestyle to those who, SUPRISE, grow up in places where the guy who committed a murder just a week ago lives right next door to you.

I council kids who live in violent and dangerous inner city neighborhoods.

Also comparing military service to these kids' environment is pathetic. You signed up to carry a gun and take orders to perform a job and duty. These kids didnt sign up to get shot at and have people threaten their lives on a daily basis.

Should I keep going? I have countless stories of kids I've seen kicked to the curb by upper class RACIST yuppies like you who think everybody grows up with a silver spoon in their mouths.

Go to hell, literally.

Yawn. It was bad enough but, really, trotting out the "racist" and "silver spoon" arguments is really a bore.

You know nothing of my background (income, ethnic, or otherwise), and certainly not views on race (a sociological construct: thanks for asking!).

Actually, I signed up (for the military) for the glory, but many of my compatriots signed up to escape the very neighborhoods you describe; which brings me to my point on bad neighborhoods: um...move.

Yes, you will reply with some dribble about "how nice for you" or "you can't just up and move" but, sorry, you can.

I do, indeed, feel bad for the youths you describe; but liberal rulings these days preclude society from pointing out the negligence of their parents (you know, that "racism" you so decry? It keeps anyone from--except brave thinkers such as Thomas Sowell and, weirdly, Bill Cosby--from pointing out the supreme idiocy of embracing and perpetuating inner-city culture (a culture which transcends "race").

But keep spouting your stereotypes: I am sure that you do much to draw like-minded, deep-pocketed crusaders to your cause.

BTW: Bill Gates has done more for this country than all the sociologists/social workers/counselors combined. Keep up the politics of hate; the rest of us keep on about creating jobs for those who want them.

No, seriously, I thought it was a joke. Like Borat pretending to be an anti-semite while speaking Hebrew.

To re-appropriate the sentiments of the great Sam Kinison:

"If you want to help these people, don't send them food: send them U-Hauls! Send them Samsonite! Pack them all up and then drive them to WHERE THE FOOD IS! Grab them by the hair and say 'What is this? Yeah, it's sand... you know what it will be in a hundred years? SAND!!!! That's because this is a desert! We have deserts in America, but we don't live in them assh*le!'"

1: Move TOWARD the jobs; AWAY from the crime! (Seems so simple...)

To the poster noting that good/bad does not equal legal/illegal: true, but that is not what the discussion is about.

2: Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. (Don't do it!)

I am a supporter of the following ideas, which, if (most) liberals were (more) rational, could be applied with great effect: "empathy gap" and "cultural capital."

The empathy gap (perhaps best embodied by Marie Antoinette's "Let them eat cake" comment) occurs when those above a certain wealth level (one which I have not achieved but to which I aspire) lose all understanding of how "normal" people live--with the corollary that the fat-n-happy Wal-Mart and young-n-scrappy inner-city crowd have no idea what it is to be anything but what they are (i.e., how different can other people be from *me*).

[Related ideas include "the chump factor" (e.g., if enough ppl cross against the light or go for insurance fraud or shoot ppl, so will YOU, heck "EVERYBODY'S DOIN' IT!" and you don't want to be the only "chump") and a corollary similar "consensus gentium"--perhaps best captured by the statement "but no one I know voted for Nixon!"--in which everyone you know thinks/works/acts a particular way and, hence, the world must think/work/act in the same manner.]

The other--and the REAL issue--is "cultural capital." In the culture around me (that is, eveyone I know) values education, leadership, business, and community. My children's "cultural capital" means that reading is akin to breathing (indeed, we have not even "taught" our children to read, they just do), and college is a question of which versus whether. Entrepreneurship? Check! "Connections"? Likely. Etc.

That said: so far as I know, my circle's cultural capital does not include where to score cocaine, how to run a brothel, or how to manipulate the legal or social services systems (so, you see, they are impoverished, in a way).

Unfortunately, liberal paternalism disallows anyone's pointing out that hip-hop and/or inner-city "cultural capital" leads to sub-optimal outcomes (although, weirdly, some will decry the use of the term "sub optimal" as judgmental--if not racist--but then, one breath later, cry "racism" at inequality of test score outcomes... Logic is NOT the strong suit of the Left.)

Were I allowed to advance cultural capitalism to those outside my group, I might do so (indeed, I am considering including, at some point, a foster child in my family line-up; why? Because charity, sharing, and helping others are key components of my cultural capital), despite others' (rather silly) derision of my goals, mores, values, and ideals.

So: b*tch about "silver spoons" (while in effect demanding the same--without doing what is necessary to forge one) all you want. You don't like my world view? Don't like my neighborhood? Don't like crime-free streets with friendly neighbors, cookouts, holiday parties, and unlocked doors? By all means--do not pursue them. But if you are honest, and perceive the value of such niceties, well, friend: Welcome!

My grandfather was a founding board member of ACLU. He helped bring in some prison reform to ensure humane treatment. I'm proud of him. Meanwhile, I loathe wingnuts.

you never lived the life i did

dont judge what you dont know

you would not last ONE HOUR in the neighborhood i'm from

and dont worry, you dont bother me at all, how could a suburban pussy never experienced shit in my life piss me off?? you are the joke of life

it would be justice to chop off the hand of a thief, but who will be the one who chops off the thief's hand? a government employee? no man has the moral authority to provide cruel and unusal punishment to another.

Let the one without sin cast the first stone.

I find it interesting that so many people here support harsh punishments in the criminal courts, but not in the civil courts. Every thread about a law suit quickly turns into a bunch of people bashing the plaintif and saying that the suit is excessive. Why are excessive criminal penalties acceptable while excessive civil penalties are not?

and btw i am not saying all suburban kids dont experience life and are pussies

dgdgdsg wrote:

and btw i am not saying all suburban kids dont experience life and are pussies

At least get this much right: I was a rural pussy--I grew up on a farm. Sheesh.

oh shit that worse man. that means your really some farm animal f-in boy. You prob had ZERO friends growing up and didnt learn anything that your mommy or daddy didnt teach you. grow up man. you grew up in a softer, easier, enviornment. you have these claims, but you dont really know what its like. you dont know what its like to get shot at just BECAUSE. you dont know what its like for the police to PLANT sh8t on you. you dont know what its like for you best friend to get shot and killed, and have to go to school and see the person who killed him EVERY DAY. you dont know shit dude. grow up pussy farm boy. honestly, you suck a cow off b4 huh?