any more specific results? who qualified? men? women? link to results?
any more specific results? who qualified? men? women? link to results?
4 minutes fast isn't such a huge amount that the race should be disrespected? What if a marathon course were between a mile and a half mile short, would you say the same? There's no quantitative difference between the two. What makes you think that most trials level guys (or gals) aren't acclimated to altitude and wouldn't benefit from cooler temperatures? It's not like it's in the teens or 20s at the start, is it? The downhill obviously pushes more than any competition would, if it is, as you say, about 4 minutes fast compared with a "real course." I don't think anyone has said that it's unfair, if USATF allows it to everyone then of course it's fair. People are saying that it's dishonest.
Why the dis? wrote:
St George from what I've been told is about 4 minutes fast. I don't think this is such a huge amount that the race should be disrespected. Does anyone ever break 2:20 there? Most often the top 3-4 are right around the 2:20 ballpark. Maybe they would run 2:24 on a real course.
I think in some respects St George is not really an aided course for a trials level guy. I mean sure, there is a blazing downhill, but aside from that there is a high altitude and low temperature start, and little competition.
If St George was such a giant PR mill, why aren't there more borderline trials qualifiers showing up there to get the standard?
I doubt most people consider their St George time to be a PR, and nobody I know would be fooled by someone saying their marathon PR was X:XX at St George (mentally I'd be putting an asterisk there before someone got the rest of the sentence out of their mouth).
St G is supposedly a great course and a lot of fun. Who cares if a few people here and there show up to get a qualifier. If USATF didn't think it was fair they could exclude St G as a qualifying venue.
Anybody have results? I've looked all over...
My friend NICK SCHUETZE from Oregon won in 2:16, in third from washington was SEAN SUNDWALL who ran 2:18:.. nick mentioned that he negative splited 71/65. Sounds like quite a bit of down hill
If correct,that's a good result for Sean. His previous marathons, according to marathonguide.com.
2005 2:44 at St. George
2006 3:00 Seafair
3:03 Boston
2:31 St. George
2007 2:29 Eugene
2;18 St. George
He really gets in shape for St. George.
A comment from last year's on marathonguide:
Even though I set a PR by almost 14 minutes, I wouldn't classify this as an "easy" marathon. The hills in the first half can really do you in if you go out too fast. But if you pace yourself, you can get up some speed on the declines in the second half. Also remember that it starts at about one mile in elevation, so if you only train at sea level, you might feel like you are running with weights on your ankles. I was fortunate to fall in with a Clif Shot pace team that kept me from going out too fast. Even though I lost them at about mile 18, it was still great to be with the group for that long.
Other comments. Notice the defensiveness ofa couple who know they gor a freebie.
Even though it's mostly downhill, it's still 26.2 miles and a tough course. It does have some significant uphill stretches. I did a PR by 9 minutes, but I think most of it was due to training, not so much the course. The first 14 miles are best described as rolling hills, not consistently downhill.
Although I ran a PR and a BQ, I left St. George with a bad taste in my mouth. There were three issues that really bothered me and and still do months later.
The course is just as advertised - it is definitely a PR course if you train for the hills, and negative splits are common in this race
This is definitely a PR course if you train for hills. Don't listen too much to the naysayers that complain about the climb at mile 7 - it's not that significant when compared to the race overall. This course is FAST! I wish I'd trained more for the declines because I could take the gentler grade declines much faster than some of steeper 6% and 8% downhill grades that are on the course. Ultimately, though, I ended up with a 20-minute PR and qualified for Boston with 10 minutes to spare.
I put in a lot of work to prepare and ran a sub three-hour (2:58). This is definitely a PR course.
Despite what anyone says, this is a fast course. It's got some hills, but it's fast. I'm sure there are faster courses, but this is a fast one.
I had heard mixed reviews on this race and now know why. I got some great helpful information on the course in terms of how to run the uphill and downhill sections. I also drove the course the day before to see with my own eyes what the hills really looked like. With that information I was able to back off on the Veyo Hill and another at mile 18 without getting discouraged. Had I not had those bits of info, I might have tried to push too hard to keep on an even pace. My goal was sub-4 and I came in at 3:56.
The course itself definitely sets up for a PR if you know what to expect. I did manage to set a new PR and go sub-3 hours, which was pleasing. I trained hard for the declines and expected the inclines as well (which was welcomed relief from the significant declines!).
All you have to do is ask how many of these runners could run as fast running the course in reverse. It aids any runner period. Gravity is to be respected.
For the record in regard to down hill performances, Goucher's Half marathon of 66:57 last weekend in the UK will not be legit by iaaf ranking rules, because it loses a total of 35+ meters in elevation.
In no way could or would any time run on SG be even mildly looked at as the true measure of the runner in comparision to what others have worked so hard for & proven on true courses.
I just looked at the St. George results. I knew 6 runners running. Every one ran at least 8 minute PRs. Some of them already had St. George PRs. Talked to one of the guys who said temperatures were perfect and there was a tail wind. He described it as "crazy fast."
I have run St. George (4 years ago) and anyone who claims it as a PR is lame. One year later I went to watch and the only way to get back on the course is to run or ride a bike back along the course. I ran backwards to the 19 mile mark. It was a tough run. I struggled to run 8 minute miles and I was in about 33 minute 10k shape...
DJ Yougquist won the woman's race today in 2:36. Is she off her drug suspension??
2nd Place: Paul Petersen 2:18:0
Other 2007 Marathon: Ogden 2:26:24
3rd place: Sean Sundwall 2:18:55
Other 2007 Marathon: Eugene 2:29:18
4th Place: David Danley 2:19:33
Other 2007 Marathons: R&R 2:27:50; SLC 2:39:12; Grandma's 2:30:12
6th Place: Nicholas McCombs 2:20:49
Other 2007 Marathon: SLC 2:30:10
7th Place: Logan Fielding 2:21:45
Other 2007 Marathons: Top of Utah 2:39:22; Ogden 2:55:18
All times are from marathonguide.com. Just shows how amazingly fast today was in Utah. Have to be some jealous folks right now in Chicago. Bottom line...these guys did the training, showed up, ran the time and are headed to NYC.
Here are the Numbers wrote:
2nd Place: Paul Petersen 2:18:0
Other 2007 Marathon: Ogden 2:26:24
3rd place: Sean Sundwall 2:18:55
Other 2007 Marathon: Eugene 2:29:18
4th Place: David Danley 2:19:33
Other 2007 Marathons: R&R 2:27:50; SLC 2:39:12; Grandma's 2:30:12
6th Place: Nicholas McCombs 2:20:49
Other 2007 Marathon: SLC 2:30:10
7th Place: Logan Fielding 2:21:45
Other 2007 Marathons: Top of Utah 2:39:22; Ogden 2:55:18
All times are from marathonguide.com. Just shows how amazingly fast today was in Utah. Have to be some jealous folks right now in Chicago. Bottom line...these guys did the training, showed up, ran the time and are headed to NYC.
For the comment on p. 1 of this thread that people simply travel to "nowheresville" to run a fast marathon, notice how many of these top 7 finishers ran other marathons in Utah this year (and those other Utah marathons aren't easy). Gee, I wonder what state these people might be from? Gee, it really looks like they went way out of their way and traveled great distances to get to St George.
3 of 5. Is that sampling significant enough to discount the assertion? Not a chance.
Actually, 11 of the top 15 are listed as being from UT --- including Michael T. Vick, who missed the B standard by less than a minute. Guess he was trying to get in the Trials before he got sentenced....
Paul Cummings 2:11.32 - houston
Paul Cummings 2:15.16 - st george
WHY DO YOU CARE?????
Nowhere Man wrote:
3 of 5. Is that sampling significant enough to discount the assertion? Not a chance.
Um, look again. That would be 4 out of 5... in other words, all of those listed but 1. It doesn't look like scads of people were flying in from all over the country to get an "easy" qualifier as the previous poster was implying.
screaming fast course.
why do some of you try to kid yourself?
why USATF allows anyone to qualify on this course is beyond me.
the decline is porbably equivalent to taking EPO
This Mike Vick is a rad kid. He is only about 20 and has a great future. Nice run for his 2nd marathon. Congrats!
Runner's Corner Rules!
If the "aidedness" of this course is so upsetting and bogus, why isn't everyone outraged about Bob Kempainen's PR at Boston which was heavily wind aided? At least 2 minutes fast.
St George is an aided course. Especially with a tailwind. Nobody, especially the runners, would consider those times to be real PRs. Why does it anger you that someone would choose to run a downhill course? Have you never run a downhill course in your life?
I once ran Mt Rainier to the Pacific, 3 10km+ legs spread over about 24 hours. I "PRed" in the 10km 3 times that day. I never considered any of those times to be real. But that didn't stop the race from being fun!
If people are using St George to qualify for something (trials, Boston) why does that upset people? If USATF and Boston are willing to accept the times from these courses then the people have met the qualifier. Why would anyone on the bubble of qualifying make it more difficult on themselves? What do you want, for these people to run Big Sur on a hot day with wind in their face?
I say no big deal, 5 extra people qualify 3 weeks before the trials. There's no reason to make a fuss about this. You could only get upset about this if you harbor some jealousy or you have a grudge against St George.
Where are the results by the way?
1. BK does catch occasional grief for the Boston flyer, as do Barrios and several others.
2. You don't consider your downhill PRs real; you know better and have integrity. Gerogies don't. They never say, "Well, I ran 3:17 at St. George, but my real PR is probably 3:23 at Grandma's" or something like that.
3. Would you be similarly sanguine about a 24 lap "PR" on the track? It's eqivalent.