Any St.George people out there? Bad wind for the marathon?

Who cares what the weather is, the couse drops almost a half mile (2500+ feet) & maybe short besides. Run with a paraglider & make use of the wind, you will make down the hill even faster!

Run a real marathon & see what you can do, or not, maybe your into short down hill races.

should be tailwind-esque from the north-northwest....you'll be fine.

I agree. It's such a perversion of the sport for people from all over the country to be flying in to Nowheresville, Utah, for the sole purpose of running down a mountain to claim "PRs" in an alleged marathon.

Avocados Number wrote:

I agree. It's such a perversion of the sport for people from all over the country to be flying in to Nowheresville, Utah, for the sole purpose of running down a mountain to claim "PRs" in an alleged marathon.

With all due respect, if you haven't been there and haven't run it, there is no need to insult the town and the race.

As far as the course goes, it's USATF certified and sanctioned, eligible for Trials or Boston qualifiers. Seems like some people think it's legit.

O.K., "St. Nowheresville."

Actually, I was belittling the people who fly in from all over the country in order to claim bogus "PRs" by running down a mountain. I haven't heard anything bad about the town itself, aside from the fact that it attracts people who fly in from all over the country in order to claim bogus "PRs" by running down a mountain. As for the race, I doubt its feelings are hurt by any perceived insults.

AN ... I've always had great respect for you, your opinions and your running. But you are losing me on this thread. St.George is a beautiful town that puts on a great race. You of all people shouldn't be jealous of people trying to run a few minutes better than they would do on a flat course. Maybe the downhill would kill their quads anyway. The majority of people running this marathon are not Olympic trials type people but the 3 to 4 hour types. Why should it bother you if they run a 3:10 instead of 3:20?

You are sounding like one of the typical Letsrun a-holes.

St George puts on one of the best races in the country. Reminds me a lot like Grandmas--lots of small town charm, and the ENTIRE town supports the race. Very cool.

* Perfect size race...enough to have company, not too much that it stresses you out

* 99% of the time, perfect weather

* One of the most beautiful courses in the country. The red rocks and snow canyon area is just beautiful.

* Sure its fast, but many actually run faster at a place like Chicago...1st half is actually quite hilly in places.

* Organization is top notch...big prizes for catching the early busses!

kudos to St George...nice race and always a pleasure to go back!

sure you are faster than i am wrote:

Maybe the downhill would kill their quads anyway.

It shouldn't if they prepare properly.

The point is that it's disingenuous to go around calling a time from a course like this your marathon PR. Same for the old Austin course. Free-falling for 10,000m while moving your arms and legs in a running motion doesn't count for a 10k PR, does it? If St. George is acceptable, then what would be the cut-off for overall grade (descent) for any distance race to still have it count? Why don't downhill road mile races count for records purposes? It should always be prefaced with "this is my AIDED COURSE marathon PR" every time it gets mentioned.

So, it's really all just a myth that that amount of elevation loss aids performances?

Thanks for the generally positive review of my past opinions. I'll try to give you a thoughtful response.

It's really not about jealousy. At least, I don't think it is. I doubt that I have any real sense of jealousy about 3:20 marathoners who tell people that they're 3:10 marathoners. For me, it's primarily a matter of honesty and integrity. I think that many of us are attracted to this sport, and committed to this sport, in part because there's a hard-nosed, unvarnished honesty about it.

I admit that I dislike events like the Tucson marathon, the St. George's marathon, the Steamtown marathon, the Fontana Days half-marathon, and the old Austin marathon, which were set up and marketed largely for the purpose of attracting people who are looking to inflate their achievements. To me, those races are a bit like Internet diploma mills, which hand out academic credentials for a price other than that of hard work and the acquisition of competence.

By the way, I don't think runners in the U.S. generally understand that these downhill races, which are developed and marketed for the purpose of producing bogus "PRs," are almost exclusively a phenomenon within the U.S., although I've noticed a few shorter races in Europe that have gone in that direction. I've wondered about the cultural significance of this, although I hesitate to draw any firm conclusions.

One more thing: In discussions about these events, people often bring up the Boston marathon. Although I've never been a huge fan of the Boston marathon, I don't regard it in the same light as the other races that I've mentioned. Boston's downhill race course is largely a matter of historical accident, not a matter of cynical design.

p.s. I was hoping that no one would take seriously my remarks about St. George as "Nowheresville." I was simply making the rather obvious point that people aren't flying in from all over the country for any reason other than that which I've stated.

Yes, Americans have an obsession with numbers.

Anyway, however Boston's course came about, the result remains the same and USATF and the IAAF have decided that it falls outside of acceptable record-worthy criteria. Not that poor execution and now a string of years of prohibitive weather haven't worked against a lot of people.

Your points are well taken. However, road races, as well as some other sports, are not played on an even field. Is the ball hit to left field in Fenway Park going to have ths same result as the same one hit in Safeco Field ... or Coors Field. Is game played in the cold at Lambeau the same as playing one in a dome in St.Louis?

For the most part, we are talking about recreational runners who run a few minutes faster at St.George or some other "fast" course. Who cares? What about races run at altitude? (I believe St.George starts at around 7500')Every course is different in it's conditions. I don't think anyone is claiming to have run a world record at St.George.

The people who are claiming pr's on courses like St.George and Tucson are comparable to the softball player who hit 60 home runs in his/her league. It is all what they want to make of it.

anyone know how i can track results??

St George from what I've been told is about 4 minutes fast. I don't think this is such a huge amount that the race should be disrespected. Does anyone ever break 2:20 there? Most often the top 3-4 are right around the 2:20 ballpark. Maybe they would run 2:24 on a real course.

I think in some respects St George is not really an aided course for a trials level guy. I mean sure, there is a blazing downhill, but aside from that there is a high altitude and low temperature start, and little competition.

If St George was such a giant PR mill, why aren't there more borderline trials qualifiers showing up there to get the standard?

I doubt most people consider their St George time to be a PR, and nobody I know would be fooled by someone saying their marathon PR was X:XX at St George (mentally I'd be putting an asterisk there before someone got the rest of the sentence out of their mouth).

St G is supposedly a great course and a lot of fun. Who cares if a few people here and there show up to get a qualifier. If USATF didn't think it was fair they could exclude St G as a qualifying venue.

Any results?

About 7-8 Olympic Trials qualifiers... beautiful day for running on quite a deceptive course (only fast for those who trained to run downhill fast while tired)

Perfect conditions today in St. George. 45 and a tailwind. To correct a previous poster, the race starts at about 5,200 feet and descends about 2,600. All the Chicago people should have been in Utah.

St.George is a great little town and this is a terrific marathon. But to say the course is legitimate---no way. Every marathoner I know has their marathon PR at St. George. I know many people who have run 10 minutes faster at St. George than anywhere else--and these are experienced marathoners. People who run at sea level in a flat area may not benefit as much, but if you are prepared this is the fastest course around. Everyone should run St. George---it really is beautiful---just put an asterisk by your PR time.

Tim Jones of Loveland, CO ran 2:16 back in the day 1995 there to make the trials. I think he would have been more like a 2:21 guy elsewhere.