How did Marion Jones Pass the drug tests after winning in the Olympics?

And just to be specific:

The poster had responded to had suggested that Nike would have had the ability and a financial interest in paying off Lagat's alleged EPO test results, to which I commented that was a ridiculous idea for the following reasons:

1. Why would Nike have an interest in protecting a man who comes from a country that has ZERO dollars to invest in the sport? Everyone on here bitches about how Africans are dominating the distance events and it's killing interest in elite distance running in Europe and America. If Nike/IAAF really had the power and position to alter test results, you'd think it would be AGAINST African distance runners to the advantage of Americans/Europeans.

2. Even if you assume that such an ability did exist, why the f*** would they exercise it on a Kenyan, and not on their poster boy, Olympic and World 100m champion, Justin Gatlin? He, Tim Montgomery (and now Jones) represent doping scandals at the highest levels of our sport: no one receives more attention than the 100m champion or world record holder. There is a more serious case for the financial side of the conspiracy theory here, but no evidence for it: they all got busted (one way or another).

3. If any test-altering ability did exist, surely it's with the national federations and not with a damn shoe company. Who supervises results: Nike or the federation? In this case, it's known that Jacobs (for ex.) tested positive for drugs at USAs in '95 but was given the option to go home sick, in order to avoid bad press (Jacobs, BTW, was not a Nike athlete at the time). On the other hand, when news of Lagat's terrible situation hit the wires, it was prematurely released by his own federation!

4. That poster suggested that a 3:43 mile is impossible: how fast is possible? 3:50? 4:00? Shit, Steve Cram ran 3:46.3 in an unevenly paced race, and sufferred through innumerable injuries throughout his career. If that poster were to consider his run near the end-all of human middle distance performace (as I would assume they would) then they're not really considering the details (big shock, huh?).

HWY 287 Liquor wrote:

There are a number of letsdrug.com sites for endurance athletes - the hows of doping and beating the tests, what is tested and where.

I know of one guy who ran 2:teens for one marathon - signed up for another shortly after, found out about the testing at this race - suddenly became injured - then opted for another marathon the next week with no drug testing - then ran nearly a 10 min improvement. hmmm

You're saying he ran somewhere between 2:19 and 2:13 and then took off nearly 10min?

Clean 100m record progression

Ashford-10.79

Tyus-11.0h(11.08)

Cheng-11.0h

Ferrell-11.1h

Rudolph-11.2h

Krepkina-11.3

Strickland-11.3

Jackson-11.4

Blankers-Koen-11.5

Walasiewitz- could I get away with calling Stella a ballsey runner ;)

or how a clean american can run 3:46...

HWY 287 Liquor...that handle is more than a little poignant

Ask Lance Armstrong

I don't know, how did Florence Griffith Joyner pass the tests in '88 all the way through the Seoul Olympics? (then abruptly retire instead of running the next season in the glow of '88?- very fishy).

no no no. you are forgetting that she would have successfully passed all drug tests in 88 as well because all elites are on drugs and they always pass the tests while drugged.

Then she said that she was training for a marathon ... HEY DUMBASSES ATTENTION ALL NAIVE LETSRUN DUMBASSES!!!! she said this because she was coming off of the drugs and the "training for a marathon" would provide good cover for her loss of muscle mass! Then she died as a result of too many PEDS!

"4. That poster suggested that a 3:43 mile is impossible: how fast is possible? 3:50? 4:00? Shit, Steve Cram ran 3:46.3 in an unevenly paced race, and sufferred through innumerable injuries throughout his career. If that poster were to consider his run near the end-all of human middle distance performace (as I would assume they would) then they're not really considering the details (big shock, huh?)."

You will never know what is possible and what is not, who is the fastest clean athlete? There is no evidence to support a claim either way at the moment. Drug testing has had a miserable time in the past and this looks set to continue in the foreseable future.

No, the new version already exists. It was recently announced that 10 riders in this year's Tour de France returned "non-positive" tests for Dynepo - a new form of epo. This included the now disgraced (but not banned) Rasmussen. Translation - 10 riders were using this drug but the sensitivity levels for what constitutes a positive test have not been agreed upon by WADA and the testing labs. This was similar the tests that snared two Russian and one Spanish/German athlete at the SLC Olympics - they were found to be taking a new, far more powerful type of epo - darbepotein. What surprised many people was the quick turnaround for the drug to make its way into competitive sport - about five months from approval as a drug (October of the previous year, I believe).

Finally, some, of course are simply using good old reinfusion techniques. As cited in the excellent book "Drugs in Sport", 4th Edition edited by David R. Mottram, Brian and Simon demonstrated that the reinfusion of blood into good recreational 10 km runners (33 minute range) lead to an improvement of over one minute. These effects were also shown to last more than two weeks. Given that autologous transfusions are completely undetectable, it is unlikely this technique is not being used more often than thought. Since the gains from blood doping and use of epo and its derivatives are so great, it is almost impossible to believe any of the current world best times are not fueled by artificial enhancement. Simply put - at least some already elite athletes must be doing these techniques and given the gains associated with these banned techniques their improved performances would necessarily defeat the competition - unless, of course, the competition is likewise engaged in such behavior.

Sorry for the long post.

no they look the other way and let them substitute urine from a bottle. that's what lance armstrong does. uci and wada volunteers are paid off. annus got caught at athens but that's very rare. that's why many people want sworn law enforcement/correctioons officers to take the samples and control the chain of custody of the samples. there's too much corruption in usatf, ioc, ncaa, wada, uci, etc. we must have professional police involved in the entire process from now on.

As far as Marion's tests go...

Steroids are a training drug, not a racing drug. You take steroids so you can recover more quickly from training. Steroids also adds muscle mass and therefore strength and power. So a sprinter such as Marion could 'roid up during the build-up her training and stop just before she enters competition and the drugs will be out of her system but the effects will still be there.

I'm assuming we all know what adaptation and supercompensation are correct? You stress the body, the fitness level drops, the body responds, adapts, gets stronger/better, you stress it again, repeat process. Too many stress and you don't fully adapt from the inititial stress, you only get worse and worse. You become a better athlete a better runner from the rest, not the actual training.

Let's say a normal human being can perform a hard workout 12 times in 12 weeks, once every 7 days. If they run hard more than that then their body won't adapt and supercompensate, it will only get tired and fail. They rest, recover, taper and race. Now they only do enough to MAINTAIN their fitness so they can race for 4 weeks.

Ok, now let's say a 'roided human can perform a hard workout 24 times in 12 weeks, doubling their capacity for hard work. The rest, recover, taper and race. They will race faster because they were able to put in twice as much hard work.

So Marion would only have tested positive during a "suprise" out of competition drug test.

Now, EPO and blood boosting is more of a racing drug. Cheaters began using EPO because it was simpler than regular blood boosting and less dangerous. Now that they have a test for EPO it's very likely people have gone back to transfusions (Tyler Hamilton). There are two ways to do this: 1. You draw out your own blood, which means until your RBC level returns to normal you'll have to train at a reduced level (4-8 weeks). It's also very costly, probably the most costly way to cheat. It's also undetectable. 2. You use the blood of someone with the same blood type. They have recently developed a test to detect this, hence Tyler getting caught. So, it would appear the key to getting past the blood tests is to figure out the number of immature blood cells they are looking for to trip the test. From my research it says it's a "guarded secret"....though with anything I'm sure that secret has been bought so it would give cheaters a number to shoot for...like the 50% hematocrit.

You see, the big problem with the doping controls is that they are too public. If you tell them they will be busted with a hematocrit of 50% or a T:E ratio of 4:1 then they'll cheat up to that level.

Alan

for out-of-competition testing, it's the same, the proctors, volunteers, etc. representing wada, usatf, ncaa, mlb, nfl, etc. will tip off the athlete and will take the samples turning their heads the other way and allowing urine and blood to be substituted. consequently, there is effectively NO DRUG TESTING OF ATHLETES GOING ON TODAY IN SPORTS. the testing protocol is compromised by the lack of adherence to procedures and is effectively null. we must have sworn officers take over the process. the doctors must have security checks for conflicts of interest. all of the samples must and chain of custody must be evaluated and certified. we need to treat samples as if they are nuclear bombmaking materials.

Actually, only cycling and nordic skiing use the hematocrit level. Even then being above 50% does not result in a postive test, rather the athlete is simply declared unfit to race. They are then retested in a couple of weeks and their hct level must have fallen below that level. Of course, that is easy - just go donate blood.

steroids and drugs are available to everyone. they are TOO EASY to get ahold of.

the only reason they are illegal in the sporting world is because they can be detrimental to your health in the distant future. if Marion jones or anyone else wants to use them, let them go ahead. their health is their perogative.

if youre a real athlete then you'll do whatever it takes to get an edge over your opponent. drugs or no drugs, Marion Jones still beat everyone else in the olympics and has ran the 2nd fastest 100meter time ever, right behind Flo-Jo.

theres no reason she should have to forfit anything or be punished. if there is a punishment, it will be to her health in the distant future.