What does the current Gopher XC training program consist of anyway? I keep hearing heavy mileage in these posts, I ran for Plas when he first came around to the U of M and we didn't run crazy miles. Being an alum, I really wish there would be a point that Minnesota would compete with Wisco, UMich in the Big Ten and be a consistent Top 10 school. I just don't see that happening with Plas as the head coach. I mean as a comparison Lundin works wonders with his 400 meter in-state recruits.
Plas obivously has gone through a learning curve for coaching, and I agree that at this level you don't hire a guy that needs to go through a learning curve. With that being said, how is it that a program which even prior to Plas coming in is expected to steal every recruit from a WI or a Stanford. Come on, WI is in our backyard and #1 in the country. No matter how much someone likes the state they live in it can be easier to attend the #1 program in the country and not be any further away from home.
Bottom line, blast Plas for his coaching ablities but to blast him about his recruiting is out of line. I would give him A for recruiting over his tenure. He has always brought the talent in to compete. Maybe not with WI, not many teams in the country can!!
Plas obivously has gone through a learning curve for coaching, and I agree that at this level you don't hire a guy that needs to go through a learning curve. With that being said, how is it that a program which even prior to Plas coming in is expected to steal every recruit from a WI or a Stanford. Come on, WI is in our backyard and #1 in the country. No matter how much someone likes the state they live in it can be easier to attend the #1 program in the country and not be any further away from home.
Bottom line, blast Plas for his coaching ablities but to blast him about his recruiting is out of line. I would give him A for recruiting over his tenure. He has always brought the talent in to compete. Maybe not with WI, not many teams in the country can!!
im calling bullshit. sorry steve does not need to steal recruits from Stan and Wisco. If they are MN kids and end up elsewhere, they are getting "stolen" from us. Seems like there are alot of excuses as to why the guy cant succeed. Oh, and by the way, why cant plas go out and get guys from states besides MN, WI, and SD?
unless something has changed, guys at the UofMN are not forced to run high mileage, so i don't know where you posters are getting this from. Some athletes there, like Andrew Carlson, have/do run high mileage, but overall, the "forced" training has never sounded that tough to me. The problem is more about personal conflicts and bullshit like that. I have heard too many stories about plas running with the guys and turning workouts/normal runs into races if they don't do exactly as he says.
plas really does not seem to be a bad guy, and i'm not attacking him. i do think that the UofMN has underachieved, and should get their act together as a program.
the u of m isnt really a high mileage team. i know plenty of athletes who run a heck of a lot more than those guys. i actually thought some of those guys werent running that much. so it seems weird that everyone is saying they have a huge high mileage philosphy. by the way, how did rombough do last year as an underclassmen?
As some of the others have said. Rombough is an exception. If you have 10 quality guys and only one runs to or above expectations then how successful can this program be? I am sure that Muturi doesn't care enough to make a coaching change and Plas will have the job as long as he "makes nationals". What a great bar he has set. I wonder how long Schumacher would have his job if he was happy with just making nationals.
Just for the record any kid going to the U of MN over Stanford, Wisconsin, Oregon is a blessing (including in-state runners).
99% of kids in the country would go to those programs over the U if they can afford 2. They would also choose those top 5 programs over any other school as well.
He has produced many distance runners (ie: Malmin, Vega, Carlson). Also, he has produced many middle distance guys, who can't always survive 10km races (I was one of them).
Move on or rip on programs who can't make top 25 at NCAA's XC the past 7 of 10 years.
Go Gophers!
I hate to say it, but Plas sucks as a coach. There are a few MIAC coaches who would do a better job than him at developing runners. Just look at all the 4:20/9:20 guys who can't break 26:00.
your "many" distance runners didn't develop because of plas' stellar coaching- they would have done that anywhere under anyone's direction.
Ben Hanson, Trent Riter - more reasons to rip on Plas.
i beg to differ wrote:
your "many" distance runners didn't develop because of plas' stellar coaching- they would have done that anywhere under anyone's direction.
Ben Hanson, Trent Riter - more reasons to rip on Plas.
So why is it that those who developed would have done so under anyone, but those who bombed would not have anywhere else. You can't say that. Plas has developed some, others didn't work out. hmm.. sounds like... EVERY COACH IN THE COUNTRY!!
let me get this straight...any time a kid improves, the coach get NO credit. And anytime he doesn't become a stud, it's the coaches fault...
dumdum wrote:
let me get this straight...any time a kid improves, the coach get NO credit. And anytime he doesn't become a stud, it's the coaches fault...
Yes apparently thats how it works when you bash people anonymously.
You forgot to mention the loser wannabee ex-runner who never did a f***ing thing in this sport and blames his coach. Apparently thats Plas's fault too.
In my opinion plas is a pretty average coach. Most of the people I've talked to that have run for him just flat out don't like him. That is why there is a thread on letsrun about once a year bashing the guy...its more about his personality than his coaching it seems like that make people bitter.
I just wanted to say that i think its funny how people talk on here like Plas is the only coach in the country that doesn't develop all the runners he brings in.
Also, i cant understand how everyone was like, ohh his all-american's wouldve developed anywhere, except Plas took guys like Vega and Carlson, mid 920's guys, and turned them into all-americans in cross country and carlson.
I think its rediculous how a coach can ever be considered good then if everyone that turns out good is because they bought them or were going to be good anyways, then Schumacher isn't that good of a coach, bringing in so many top 10 footlocker guys, they must all be coaching themselves. Give me a break and start giving Plas some credit when is runners do well.
a fan,
ill call bullshit a second time here; many coaches could have developed vega and carlson. vega had a chronological training age of what 1-1.5 years before arriving and a clear amount of natural talent. fitness can be accelerated quite fast in a talented person that had little exposure to intense training. btw, the training put a stress fracture in vega's back... carlson came from SD... NOWHERE went to AZ, looked okay and came to the u. he would have ran well anywhere. look at what he is doing with dennis right now. the excuses and justifications are getting old. again the u is a great school, in a great town, the only DI game in town, and in a great running region. they should be better.
Plas is a knowledgeable guy with plenty of experience running and coaching, but that aside, I feel he is under the mentality that "The U is the ONLY running school in MN to go to! why would these kids want to go anywhere else?" This sort of immature arrogance is what further drives away blue chip recruits and in-state talent away from the state. For every no-name recruit he has made into an All-American, the few great recruits he HAS brought in haven't really made it (ie Tom schmidt, David Van Orsdale). I think we can agree certain people have done well in his system (although Riter is predominately coached by his father anyways), his system may not work for the majority of the people he brings in. A true measure of a good coach is adapting his program to his athletes and aiding in their success, this does not appear to occur at the U, where this is only one way to success, the way plas did it.
Programs like stanford and wisconsin at this point have such a great rep, that anyone with a basic running knowledge could probably do well coaching there purely because of the prestige there and thus the inflow of fantastic recruits...Plas does take teams to the big dance, but what does that really take in a weak region and recruiting from a quality running state. Talking to the Heaths, the Watsons, and others, they practically laughed at the idea of going to the U over anywhere else...
imagine if the U got the top MN guys in the past 5 years....Will Lear, Jake Watson, Mike Krisch, the Heaths, Forrest during his prime at stanford, even that chris erichsen from st johns ...thats a stellar top 5 that could have been added to recruits like Grunewald, Torchia, Mead, Rombough
Im not sure Id call the Mid-West a weak region considering it consistently gets 3-4 teams to Nationals every year. It may not be the West or Great Lakes with 6-8 teams, but there are plenty of regions (South Central, Mid-Atlantic, Northeast) that rarely if ever get more than the two auto teams.
Bashing his track record of getting teams to nationals by saying its a weak region is false.
i beg to differ wrote:
your "many" distance runners didn't develop because of plas' stellar coaching- they would have done that anywhere under anyone's direction.
Ben Hanson, Trent Riter - more reasons to rip on Plas.
How many AA certificates do they have?