Layden on Lagat

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  • Lorenzo the Magnificent
    12 years ago 09/03/2007 4:41pm CDT
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    8) I'll say this every time I'm asked: Bernard Lagat is an engaging and likeable guy and one of the best runners in history, whether Kenyan or American. The 1,500/5,000 double is for real men only, which is why only the legendary Paavo Nurmi (1924) and Hicham El Guerrouj (2004 and he's legendary, too) have done it. Props. That said, two issues with Lagat leave me uncomfortable:

    a) He became a U.S. citizen in March 2004, before the Olympic Games, and yet he didn't announce it until after he had competed for Kenya in Athens, having never told the Kenyan federation. Lagat says he got surprised when his application for citizenship moved more quickly than he expected. That's plausible. And once he became a U.S. citizen, he was ineligible to run the '04 Games for either country. And he knew it. "I knew the only way for me to run was to just run for Kenya," Lagat told a small group of journalists in Osaka. It was a tough situation, and Lagat dealt with it by deceiving everyone involved.

    b) He remains unclear on his heartfelt reason for taking U.S. citizenship. On the one hand, he preached the American dream. "I met my wife here, I was educated here [at Washington State]," says Lagat. "I want to raise my family here." Yet, he also sounds like a man who was tired of fighting for Olympic and world championship spots in the brutally tough Kenyan system. "When I was in Kenya, I was with a lot of athletes who were really talented: Noah Ngeny, William Chirchir ... It was very hard for me mentally."

    Lagat made two Olympic teams and medaled twice in the 1,500 meters. Yet it would have been tough for him to make another Olympic team. "I kept on being competitive," says Lagat. "But in order to make the next, I have to beat [his peers] and now we have all the young runners." I'm sure Lagat loves the U.S.A.

    But while U.S. distance running is improving tremendously, it remains easier pickings than in Kenya. Almost anywhere would be easier. I think Lagat was at least partly taking a handy means to prolong his International championship career. And, hey, he's been good for U.S. distance running, not only in the medal table, but also just by his presence giving the likes of Alan Webb and Matt Tegenkamp a world class target. I just wish Lagat would come totally clean.


    These observations, justified IMO, are part of a meet wrapup article.
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/tim_layden/09/03/wrapup/index.html
  • Lagatfan
    12 years ago 09/03/2007 4:55pm CDT
    re: Lorenzo the Magnificent
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    The might of the benjamins.
  • hardset nipples
    12 years ago 09/03/2007 4:59pm CDT
    re: Lorenzo the Magnificent
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    Sure, I agree. However, it's history at this point and there's nothing any of us can really do about it outside of what any of us has already done. I have a bigger problem with his EPO positive, but I can't do anything about that, either.
  • wejo
    12 years ago 09/03/2007 5:57pm CDT
    re: Lorenzo the Magnificent
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    I'm a big Tim Layden fan but read 2 paragraphs and had to comment:
    The 48-flat relay split that Allyson Felix threw down Sunday night in the women's 4X400-relay? It was the singular moment of the championships.

    How can he say such a thing. i have trouble calling something 98% of people who watched the meet know nothing about the singular moment of the games.
  • um yea but...
    12 years ago 09/03/2007 6:15pm CDT
    re: Lorenzo the Magnificent
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    So lagat would struggle to make the Kenyan team? Really?

    I guess I missed his two gold medals. When you win a gold medal at a world championship doesn't it usually mean you are better than everyone else in the WORLD?
  • PDubbs
    12 years ago 09/03/2007 6:29pm CDT
    re: um yea but...
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    Did you notice how lagat was kind of struggling and not his usual self early in the season? There's a distinct possibility that could have cost him at the kenyan trials. Hey, props for peaking at the right time, but he may nto of had that luxury as a kenyan.
  • malmo
    registered
    12 years ago 09/03/2007 6:41pm CDT
    re: wejo
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    wejo wrote:

    I'm a big Tim Layden fan but read 2 paragraphs and had to comment:
    The 48-flat relay split that Allyson Felix threw down Sunday night in the women's 4X400-relay? It was the singular moment of the championships.

    How can he say such a thing. i have trouble calling something 98% of people who watched the meet know nothing about the singular moment of the games.

    Weldon, I didn't see the race, but a friend of mine (quite the track fan) had exactly the same opinion of her race. Remember, there are events shorter than 800m that matter.
  • malmo
    registered
    12 years ago 09/03/2007 6:44pm CDT
    re: PDubbs
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    PDubbs wrote:

    Did you notice how lagat was kind of struggling and not his usual self early in the season? There's a distinct possibility that could have cost him at the kenyan trials. Hey, props for peaking at the right time, but he may nto of had that luxury as a kenyan.

    You've got your years mixed up. Lagat got citizenship in 2004, which has nothing to do with his performances this year.
  • PDubbs
    12 years ago 09/03/2007 6:51pm CDT
    re: malmo
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    Alright i could be wrong here but i am assuming that the kenyan team for the world champs were picked based on kenyan trials earlier this summer. Hence Lagat not being in top form earlier this summer could have cost him a spot to compete in the world champs
  • mobile9
    12 years ago 09/03/2007 6:55pm CDT
    re: hardset nipples
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    hardset nipples wrote:

    Sure, I agree. However, it's history at this point and there's nothing any of us can really do about it outside of what any of us has already done. I have a bigger problem with his EPO positive, but I can't do anything about that, either.

    What can you have a problem with? He's never tested positive.
  • hardset nipples
    12 years ago 09/03/2007 7:52pm CDT
    re: mobile9
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    Incorrect, sir.
  • R.L. Scribner
    registered
    12 years ago 09/03/2007 10:01pm CDT
    re: PDubbs
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    PDubbs wrote:

    Alright i could be wrong here but i am assuming that the kenyan team for the world champs were picked based on kenyan trials earlier this summer. Hence Lagat not being in top form earlier this summer could have cost him a spot to compete in the world champs

    The point is, that is irrelevant.
  • PDubbs
    12 years ago 09/03/2007 10:13pm CDT
    re: R.L. Scribner
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    How is it irrelevant? I was responding to this,

    "So lagat would struggle to make the Kenyan team? Really?

    I guess I missed his two gold medals. When you win a gold medal at a world championship doesn't it usually mean you are better than everyone else in the WORLD?"

    Hence, since Lagat was not running as well early in the season he may not have made the kenyan team due to all their depth. So yes despite his two golds he may not of had the opportunity to be in the WC if he was still kenyan. This isn't that complicated.
  • hehateme
    registered
    12 years ago 09/03/2007 10:14pm CDT
    re: Lorenzo the Magnificent
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    hey didnt he test positive for EPO?
  • Peter
    12 years ago 09/03/2007 10:19pm CDT
    re: R.L. Scribner
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    Malmo, R.L. Scribner-

    I believe that PDubbs was trying to suggest that, were Lagat still a Kenyan citizen, because of the slow start (or rough start) to his summer, he would have struggled to make the Kenyan WCs team. From a strategic standpoint, it makes Lagat's decision to apply for US citizenship appear quite wise.

    It seems that PDubbs was speaking in hypothetically. So, it's not wholly relevant, but it's certainly not irrelevant, and he didn't get his timing wrong.

    Peter
  • LanceArmstrong
    12 years ago 09/03/2007 10:20pm CDT
    re: hehateme
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    B was negative
  • Peter
    12 years ago 09/03/2007 10:23pm CDT
    re: Peter
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    "Speaking hypothetically"
  • Les
    registered
    12 years ago 09/03/2007 10:23pm CDT
    re: Lorenzo the Magnificent
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    Lorenzo the Magnificent wrote:

    a) He became a U.S. citizen in March 2004, before the Olympic Games, and yet he didn't announce it until after he had competed for Kenya in Athens, having never told the Kenyan federation. Lagat says he got surprised when his application for citizenship moved more quickly than he expected. That's plausible. And ONCE HE BECAME A U.S. CITIZEN, HE WAS INELIGIBLE TO RUN THE '04 GAMES FOR EITHER COUNTRY. And he knew it. "I knew the only way for me to run was to just run for Kenya," Lagat told a small group of journalists in Osaka. It was a tough situation, and Lagat dealt with it by deceiving everyone involved.

    This is an inaccurate conclusion. There are many athletes who hold dual citizenship. Having such status does not disqualify the athlete from competing in the Olympics. There is a 3-year waiting period once an athlete has achieved citizenship before he/she can represent that country in international competitions. That is why Lagat could not represent the U.S. (although he had citizenship status) until the 2007 World Championships. He could have represented the U.S. had his previous country granted him permission, but Kenya did not, probably because they wanted him to represent them in the Olympics. Therefore, if Lagat wanted to compete in the 2004 Olympics, the only country he could have represented at the time was Kenya. There was no deception on Lagat's part. Just because the U.S. does not recognize dual citizenships does not mean other countries do not. Lagat could go back and represent Kenya (they'd love to have him), he just chooses not to.
  • Lester Hayes
    12 years ago 09/03/2007 10:37pm CDT
    re: Les
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    Les wrote:
    This is an inaccurate conclusion. There are many athletes who hold dual citizenship. Having such status does not disqualify the athlete from competing in the Olympics. There is a 3-year waiting period once an athlete has achieved citizenship before he/she can represent that country in international competitions. That is why Lagat could not represent the U.S. (although he had citizenship status) until the 2007 World Championships. He could have represented the U.S. had his previous country granted him permission, but Kenya did not, probably because they wanted him to represent them in the Olympics. Therefore, if Lagat wanted to compete in the 2004 Olympics, the only country he could have represented at the time was Kenya. There was no deception on Lagat's part. Just because the U.S. does not recognize dual citizenships does not mean other countries do not. Lagat could go back and represent Kenya (they'd love to have him), he just chooses not to.

    Almost every one of your sentences are factually incorrect. The most important facts in this matter are 1) The US DOES recognize dual citizenships, 2) Kenya DOES NOT, and finally 3) Lagat chose to keep his citizenship a secret.
  • Fudge and Nuts
    12 years ago 09/03/2007 10:43pm CDT
    re: Peter
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    Peter wrote:

    Malmo, R.L. Scribner-

    I believe that PDubbs was trying to suggest that, were Lagat still a Kenyan citizen, because of the slow start (or rough start) to his summer, he would have struggled to make the Kenyan WCs team. From a strategic standpoint, it makes Lagat's decision to apply for US citizenship appear quite wise.

    It seems that PDubbs was speaking in hypothetically. So, it's not wholly relevant, but it's certainly not irrelevant, and he didn't get his timing wrong.


    If Lagat was still a Kenyan, do you think he'd have had a slow start this Summer? Smoke that in your hypothetical pipe.