People who defend Barry Bonds - Dumbest on the planet?

There is an interesting article in print today as to how Bond's elbow pad - really, and entire apparatus that wraps around his arm - has contributed 100 home runs or so to his total. It apparently acts as a source of leverage and furthers consistency in his swing. And it permits him to hang out over the plate with impunity - permitting the hitting of outside pitches (a subjective element, to be sure). And today's younger players cannot use this device - apparently Bonds and other users have been grandfathered by the league - Bonds and other users claim the pads were and are necessary to limit injury and prevailed upon the league as to their permitted, continued use. The analyst goes on to point out (anecdotal to be sure) that Bonds does not do well in home run derbies because he has no transient need for the device inasmuch as pitching machines are not a material threat to one's safety.

Note that these kinds of facts, coupled with the allegations of steroid use(a deliberately kind understatement) make the case for a 600 home run hitter - a Hall of Fame player by most any measure - becoming a 800 home run hitter - with the aid of modern, and sketchy use, of technology.

And I concur that people who defend Bonds by averring steroids are not an advantage are fairly out to lunch. However, given the lax or non-existent enforcement of drug use in MLB for years, it is fair game to question whether Bonds has done anything materially different than a host of other top players. Bonds is an immense natural talent - it stands to reason that performance enhancements would benefit him more than average players and even above average to very good players.

And I don't get any notions of the racial angle. Hank Aaron endured all sorts of indignities and yet was a quiet hero to many of us. Bonds, in breaking his record, is casting a shadow over that legacy more than anything else, and that cannot possibly make baseball purists happy.

and dont forget his lucky rabbits foot. thats probably another 175 homers right there. i know it must be so because i saw it in print somewhere.

move wrote:

My favorite argument is when they say that steroids don't help you hit home runs because you still have to have tremendous hand eye coordination to hit a baseball.

Assuming that steroids don't hurt your hand eye coordination,

i have a vague memory or reading an article that made the point that the steroids can IMPROVE vision and eye hand coordination.

While most records in baseball are a result of the era they were broke in, this happens to be the steroid era. Many of the pitchers he is hitting against are on the juice so his record is mainly just a result of the era.

I don't want him to break the record more because he is an asshole than anything but don't hang him out because of steroids several other players couldn't break the record with the help of drugs.

quantum wrote:

Bond's elbow pad - really, and entire apparatus that wraps around his arm - has contributed 100 home runs or so to his total.

More than anything else with Bonds, this has been my problem with him.

He armored up his elbow and leaned over the plate. Then he whined every time he was pitched inside, took a few steps toward pitchers when they hit him and the umpires started to protect him taking away the inside part of the plate from pitchers.

They talk about his good eye when batting, that's because his strike zone in the size of a 4 inch square.

It would have been interesting to see Bonds try this crap in Bob Gibson's era. Gibson would have drilled him in the head. I wonder how Bonds could have cried race then?

Chazz wrote:

While most records in baseball are a result of the era they were broke in, this happens to be the steroid era. Many of the pitchers he is hitting against are on the juice so his record is mainly just a result of the era.

I don't want him to break the record more because he is an asshole than anything but don't hang him out because of steroids several other players couldn't break the record with the help of drugs.

Clay Hensley...the pitcher he hit the tieing HR off of was suspended a few years ago for steroid use.

Of course he has great eye-hand coordination. He was one of the best players in the league BEFORE he started doing roids. He could always hit a ball, now he just hits them out of the park instead of into the outfield.

The guy is a dirtball and ashhole. If I was a pitcher, I would throw at him every at bat.

Since when did increased strengh also mean increased bat speed?? Just because you're stronger doesn't mean you're faster. You, a runner, of all people should know this.

i hate getting in to this, but Barry Bonds has picked on since day one. First he was aloof, then self-centered, now he's the scapegoat for baseball's steroid era...

this steroid problem... is baseball's problem... everyone knew this was going on for the longest time... you don't think Bud Selig knew?

the fact is steroids saved baseball... Baseball was dead after the strike and it had been dead till Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire brought it back with the chase of 61...

Selig and the rest of baseball turned their shoulder while half the leauge was roiding because the POWER for HRs needed to revive the league...

Then Bonds took the game to a whole nother level cuz he was always a far better ball player than mcgwire and sosa... now he had power...

the fact still remains that baseball had no test policy and horrible rules against steroid use... Bonds NEVER tested positive. NEVER. yet it does seem quite likely he did steroids...

now the league, the fans, and the joke of a commisioner, Bud Selig have turned against him... Bud knew this was a problem a long time ago, but baseball needed it so he never agressively went after roiders... now the public demands it and they put Bonds out on a rope...

these records broken are probably tainted... the past, atleast 10-15 years of baseball are tainted, but you know what... blame baseball and there lackadaisical policies...

this is a black mark on baseball no different than when blacks weren't allowed to play... they have to live with the circumstances that they were not able to prevent...

just don't make Barry Bond's the focus of all that is wrong... he is just the biggest product of baseball's failure... not the creator...

Chazz wrote:

I don't want him to break the record more because he is an asshole than anything but don't hang him out because of steroids several other players couldn't break the record with the help of drugs.

This is another bad argument:

"It's ok for him to cheat and break the record because other people cheated and didn't break the record."

That's basically what you're saying here. No one is saying that if you take steroids, you're guaranteed to hit 800 home runs. It is being argued only that steroids help you hit more home runs that you would if you hadn't taken them. Barry Bonds has more natural home run ability than those players who took steroids and didn't reach the record. That's why he got it and not them, but that doesn't change the fact that he would have hit fewer if he hadn't ever taken steroids.

Steroids helped a lot of people hit home runs, not just Barry Bonds. They probably helped Mark McGwire hit 70 in one season, but you don't see Cardinals fans blindly defending his steroid use.

msncx wrote:

quantum wrote:

Bond's elbow pad - really, and entire apparatus that wraps around his arm - has contributed 100 home runs or so to his total.

More than anything else with Bonds, this has been my problem with him.

He armored up his elbow and leaned over the plate. Then he whined every time he was pitched inside, took a few steps toward pitchers when they hit him and the umpires started to protect him taking away the inside part of the plate from pitchers.

They talk about his good eye when batting, that's because his strike zone in the size of a 4 inch square.

It would have been interesting to see Bonds try this crap in Bob Gibson's era. Gibson would have drilled him in the head. I wonder how Bonds could have cried race then?

His roided up head thats 4 sizes bigger than it used to be would probably pop. That would actually sort of solve the problem. Let John Rocker come out, pop bonds, bonds dies and rocker goes to prison. Two birds with one stone right there

sam w wrote:

move wrote:

My favorite argument is when they say that steroids don't help you hit home runs because you still have to have tremendous hand eye coordination to hit a baseball.

Assuming that steroids don't hurt your hand eye coordination,

i have a vague memory or reading an article that made the point that the steroids can IMPROVE vision and eye hand coordination.

Let's recap. Steroids don't help you hit the ball; they only help you hit the ball OUT OF THE PARK. Fair statement?

What?? wrote:

Since when did increased strengh also mean increased bat speed?? Just because you're stronger doesn't mean you're faster. You, a runner, of all people should know this.

Uh, ever heard of Newton's second law? A stronger person is able to exert a larger force on a mass, and a larger force creates a larger acceleration, which leads to a faster bat speed.

So yes, increased strength does mean increased bat speed.

It's the same crowd that likes Lance Armstrong, Geracie, Clemens, McGwire. They have no life outside of ESPN.