When does a junk mile/kilometer become a junk mile/kilometer?

nothing is junk mileage.

I came to this conclusion when I saw some very good kenyan athletes do an entire run at about 9min pace and a "white" 10km olympian jog at about 8min pace for an hour, including a stop to walk up a steep hill, b/c "it was a recovery run, why would I run up it?"

I think the term junk miles was a conspiracy by RW to get Americans to think they could succeed on lower mileage so they would all suck and then read RW and run charity races. It was a conspiracy between RW and the charity cartel.

Nothing is a junk mile. The more the better.

Miles become junk when they are converted to kilometers. Rock on.

junk miles, is a session done to slow and a recovery run done to fast.

runn wrote:

I think the term junk miles was a conspiracy by RW to get Americans to think they could succeed on lower mileage so they would all suck and then read RW and run charity races. It was a conspiracy between RW and the charity cartel.

Nothing is a junk mile. The more the better.

I've had the same thoughts. I agree that theres no such thing as junk miles because morning runs would be shake out and loosing up runs for the real workout of the day or just to recover from the hard morning run.

Training Junkie wrote:

Especially you coaches out there, how do you determine just what is junk volume?

When a runner has to drastically alter his/her form to run that slow. Two of my runners ran past me today on an 85 minute, run-how-you-feel long run. Both of them were running comfortably, but their form looked horrible, as if they were braking to run that slow. I let them know that although it was okay to run very easy, not to do it at the expense of their form. They probably could have been running 30 seconds a mile faster with little difference in effort.

Training Junkie wrote:

Cuz technically, one could ascribe function/purpose to most any workout. Especially you coaches out there, how do you determine just what is junk volume?

the guy who said nothing is junk mileage is probably still under 25 years of age. fact is junk mileage becomes junk mileage when you tell yourself "i have to extend my cool downs for my next 2 workouts from 2 miles to 4 miles so that I can hit my goal mileage for this week." or something of that sort.

Basically those extra 2 miles for the cool down is not going to do anything except satisfy your need to say you ran a certain mileage for that week. Overtime it will get you injured. theres no debate on this I've coached many athletes who insisted on doing this despite my constant warnings and they ended up injured pretty seriously.

northern boy wrote:

Training Junkie wrote:

Especially you coaches out there, how do you determine just what is junk volume?

When a runner has to drastically alter his/her form to run that slow. Two of my runners ran past me today on an 85 minute, run-how-you-feel long run. Both of them were running comfortably, but their form looked horrible, as if they were braking to run that slow. I let them know that although it was okay to run very easy, not to do it at the expense of their form. They probably could have been running 30 seconds a mile faster with little difference in effort.

Well at least they were recovered!

so is there any such thing as junk miles during the summer mileage/base period

Old Coach wrote:

the guy who said nothing is junk mileage is probably still under 25 years of age. fact is junk mileage becomes junk mileage when you tell yourself "i have to extend my cool downs for my next 2 workouts from 2 miles to 4 miles so that I can hit my goal mileage for this week." or something of that sort.

Basically those extra 2 miles for the cool down is not going to do anything except satisfy your need to say you ran a certain mileage for that week. Overtime it will get you injured. theres no debate on this I've coached many athletes who insisted on doing this despite my constant warnings and they ended up injured pretty seriously.

While I agree that running extra mileage to hit some weekly mileage goal is stupid, I don't think you can ever say that any mileage is junk mileage.

If you are running, it's doing something. Even those extra 2 miles after a cool down will have SOME sort of effect. Is the effect worth the potential risks? That's up to you. But even mileage added onto a cool down has an effect and can even alter the effects of a warm up. For instance, a longer cool down after a lactic work will dampen the anaerobic effects of the workout.

Old Coach wrote:

...theres no debate on this...

Well, now we have the definitive word! EOT.

I don't think running miles to meet a weekly mileage goal is stupid...unless....it's ridiculous....example...

Catching up the miles for the sake of consistency is good....but if a kid runs 26 miles on a Sunday..to make up for the 3 days that he went to the 4-H fair instead of training, that is stupid.

Some good feeback so far on this one. I think many people are essentially saying the same thing. For example, when sheister so non-sheistily says that recovery sessions done too slowly or too quickly would both constitute "junk", it is kind of like those who say that a breakdown in form is indicative of the same. I.e., if your form is compromised due to going to slow or too fast in a workout, then that workout/volume could be chalked up to being "junk." Yes, it could be debated that there is "some" inherent long-term benefit in any running session, but I think the junk-factor figures in when the session is more dysfunctional than otherwise. The trick is in knowing where that line is, I suppose. Other thoughts?

Training Junkie wrote: I think the junk-factor figures in when the session is more dysfunctional than otherwise.

Right: if it contributes to injury, or if it interferes with the quality workouts you need, it's junk. Otherwise it's volume.