overstride and excess arm swing

marunner wrote:

So basically I think my running problems go hand in hand. I am told I am overstridding resulty in excess bounce and a lower stride rate and also that my arms are moving too much. How do I learn to minimize this motion. Is there anything I can do?

Shorten you stride and lessen the movement of your arms.

Run more miles.

Do as Mr. Obvious suggests, but focus on it as you try to up your mileage - maybe not so much overall - but being able to run a fairly long run - the definition of which depends on your stage of development - once every 7-10 days would help. Put another way, most runners I have come across capable of running a 15 - 20 mile run at a fairly good clip inculcate at least some efficiency into one's form - 12 - 13 miles out in a run - with fatigue setting in - necessity does become to some degree the mother of invention.

marunner wrote:

So basically I think my running problems go hand in hand. I am told I am [overstriding resulting] in excess bounce and a lower stride rate and also that my arms are moving too much. How do I learn to minimize this motion. Is there anything I can do?

OP, you are correct about your problems' synergy. The arms balance the legs; often overly-vigorous arms can be the tipoff to overstriding.

I agree with previous posters who suggested that increased mileage can help with this. It will...but big, rapid increases in mileage are usually a bad idea. So while you're gradually upping your miles a bit, it may help in the meantime to focus on the *backward* movement of your arms and legs.

Everything that pushes you forward happens under and (mostly) behind you. So "reaching" forward with your feet (and arms) is counterproductive, because it actually introduces a large braking force into each step. As much as possible, you want the feet to land under you, not in front of you. By itself, this can help produce a more efficient stride.

You can help the process by focusing on the backward swing of your arms, as well. Your arms should be relaxed at the elbow--even at jogging speeds, the elbow should open a little bit when it's behind your torso, and close a bit when it's in front--so it can be helpful to think about "elbows back," rather than just "arms back." By the way, some overstriding/slow tempo is caused by locked elbows, particularly if the elbows are locked open at a wide angle. That's a long lever that swings slowly and powerfully, producing slow tempo and big strides.

I should add that barefoot running on grass would help too (start with 5 min. and eventually progress up to 20-30 min.). You won't overstride while barefoot.

marunner wrote:

So basically I think my running problems go hand in hand. I am told I am overstridding resulty in excess bounce and a lower stride rate and also that my arms are moving too much. How do I learn to minimize this motion. Is there anything I can do?

Running speed = stride length X stride frequency

Try increasing your stride frequency by doing a drill where you run slowly and keep your support knee as bent as possible and keep your head from bouncing. Another way to say this is try to run as short as possible. You can try walking really fast doing this before even trying to run (which by definition includes a state when both feet are off the ground). Try and take that feeling of putting the next foot down as soon as possible after the other leaves the ground for a while. Then see if your "natural" stride feels shorter and quicker.

Another variable to consider is the "planar efficiency" of your stride. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line (or straight plane). So if your knees or feet are not moving straight back and forth at all times during your stride they are actually moving farther than needed to get the job done. This extra distance can introduce a necessary time delay into your stride (unless you force yourself to move faster, which is inefficient), which can lead to overstriding. Check out this vid of Tirunish Dibaba to see a virtually perfect planar stride.

There's a lot to finding your own individual ideal stride and it involves a lot of variables, including strength and flexiblity in certain areas.

who told you that you were overstriding?

I raced alot and beat alot of people who took alot more strides than i did. There are probably far more people chopping their stride than overstriding.

oldhalfmileguy wrote:

There are probably far more people chopping their stride than overstriding.

I don't have time to go into detail right now, but: no.

I was told by a coach that I do and when I tried counting my stride rate it was only 155/160 when I heard it should be over 180.

in terms of arms what should I do with them. does anyone have a good example of runner with proper arm motion?

Go out on the street barefoot, start running. Guarantee one of two things will happen. You will shorten your stride because your body is smart enough to know the shock absorbing order. Or you will hurt the hell out of your heel.

marunner wrote:

I was told by a coach that I do and when I tried counting my stride rate it was only 155/160 when I heard it should be over 180.

in terms of arms what should I do with them. does anyone have a good example of runner with proper arm motion?

Truth is, most people are less than 180 and would be straining their frequency to get there. Only people I see around 180 are elites at race pace or runners who chop their stride length to lessen impact. That being said, I believe there is benefit to trying to run at 180 IN PRACTICE to help build certain muscles so you can run faster.

Since you are overstriding, try keeping your hands low - averaging around elbow level. If you have your hands high, it will encourage you to drive your leg spring up rather than forward. The arms provide a twisting balance to your hip action and a forward-and-back balance to pulling your legs through. At slow pace, they should be close to your chest and moving more across. As you run faster, they move more and more forward and back (to balance the higher pulling force) but should not lose the crossing component.