Boilermaker 2007

The Boilermaker is one of the most overrated crap races there is. Entry fee of $30 if you got it in early or up to like $50 or so for a late entry. Gimme a break.

That race was a helluva race 15 years ago. Now they have people walking the thing and getting in the way.

12,000 runners and 10,000 of them can barely do a 10 minute mile.

It's a moneymaker for the City of Utica - that's all.

The race itself is a sham and a ripoff.

They should call it a 'fun-run' because that's the category it fits in.

Nice troll. Here's cookie. Try not to drool on yourself.

Jim -

Any idea of what the time breaks are for the rest of the corrals?

Oye, that's a tough one for me as I don't have anything to do with that, but I can offer a little insight based on my past observations. The following corrals get progressively larger. The one after sub-elite is probably somewhere in the 700 to 1200 person range. It has changed over the years. I think most of the folks in that corral are doing 70 or better, depending on that year's make up. Just to give you an idea, last year there were about 150 under 55, 330 under 60, 650 under 65, and 1100 under 70. Some of the later corrals hold a few thousand each.

In the past the bibs have also been color coded so you can figure out your location that way (there's a corral map in the bib packet). If you're interested in the location of a friend, the local paper prints all of the registered runners' names with bib number, alphabetically within each corral, so you can figure out which one they're in by looking at that (I think it's either the Friday or Saturday paper and they usually give it out for free at the expo).

Jim,

Congrats on administrating the Boilermaker. You will do a great job. This race is more that a race but a total experience to run. Every part of it from the evocation, the prerace talk, the national anthem, looking behind at the starting gate and seeing 11,000 people behind you, the bands and the community root you on doing the race is great. All the neat little things like the llama, the Italian guy with the Bullhorn that you might not notice are also to be cherished. and of the course the post race celebration is not to miss.

This is one helluva of an event. Good luck.

PS. Remember, just don't screw it up!

Jim's also running this year - he was below 54:00 last year, good enough for 3rd in the M45-49 age group. I didn't quite make the cut for sub-elite, but I'll attest that Jim took the time to review everyone's qualifications and had to make some tough decisions.

For those who enjoy a beer or two at the post-race party, there will be Saranac Pomegranate Wheat in addition to their Adirondack Lager.

Hey, I appreciate the thought but I'm not really administering anything. My one little contribution is helping verify and coordinate the semi-elite corral. Other people do the real work.

Mmmm, Pomegranate Wheat. THAT will be good!! Glad you mentioned it!

I was the Boilermaker timer 1985-2006.

Stan Archway's complaint (troll?) about the Boilermaker seems mean-spirited to me, but he's not completely out of line about the times -- they have been getting slower, especially as the field has increased in size.

Here's a table with data 1985-2006. It shows finishers, average male, female, and all times (to the nearest minute), plus median time (nearest minute) and then median* gun pace (M:SS) with median chip time pace for the chip years.

Year .........Fin.........M.......F...........All......Median.....G-Pace.....C-Pace

1985.........2623.........1:13.........1:25..........1:16.........1:15........(8:14)

1986 ......... 2513.........1:10.........1:22.........1:13.........1:12.........(7:45)

1987 ......... 2597.........1:16.........1:29.........1:19.........1:18.........(8:23)

1988 .........2727.........1:16.........1:28.........1:18.........1:17.........(8:14)

1989.........3044.........1:12.........1:24.........1:15.........1:14.........(7:55)

1990.........3479.........1:14.........1:24.........1:16.........1:16.........(8:06)

1991 ......... 3637.........1:13.........1:24.........1:16.........1:15.........(8:01)

1992 ......... 3975.........1:16.........1:26.........1:18.........1:18.........(8:21)

1993.........4199.........1:17.........1:27.........1:20.........1:19.........(8:28)

1994 ......... 4473.........1:17.........1:27.........1:19.........1:19.........(8:27)

1995 ......... 4768.........1:16.........1:26.........1:19.........1:18.........(8:24)

1996......... 5565.........1:20.........1:30.........1:23.........1:23.........(8:52)

1997 ......... 7661.........1:22.........1:33.........1:25.........1:24.........(9:04)

1998.........7345.........1:21.........1:33.........1:25.........1:24.........(9:03)

1999.........7359.........1:21.........1:32.........1:25.........1:25.........(9:08).........(8:45)

2000 ......... 7891.........1:22.........1:33.........1:26.........1:26.........(9:11).........(8:46)

2001 ......... 8180.........1:23.........1:33.........1:27.........1:26.........(9:16).........(8:52)

2002 .........9799.........1:27.........1:38.........1:31.........1:31.........(9:45).........(9:14)

2003.........8829.........1:23.........1:33.........1:27.........1:27.........(9:19).........(8:51)

2004 ......... 9120.........1:26.........1:37.........1:30.........1:30.........(9:39).........(9:09)

2005 ......... 9415.........1:27.........1:38.........1:31.........1:31.........(9:45).........(9:12)

2006......... 9408.........1:27.........1:38.........1:32.........1:31.........(9:48).........(9:16)

The biggest jump in finishers was 1996 to 1997, and in general the average and median finish times do slow after that. I'm sure that part of this slowing-down is because the larger fields include proportionally more slower runners than faster ones, but that can't be all there is to it. If there were a huge new bulge of slower runners in the field, we'd expect the difference between mean and median time to be considerable, but it's not. In 2006, the median gun time was 1:31:22 and the average gun time was 1:31:36 (I rounded to the nearest minute to make the table easier to read).

More importantly, there's the issue of a cramped starting area -- notice that in the first chip year (1999) the difference between the median gun pace and chip pace was 23 seconds. Chip time, of course, can only account for the time you spent getting to the line -- it can't account for how long it took you to start running freely. When the Boilermaker field was 4000 or under, runners could get free after the start and begin running their own paces quickly -- this certainly isn't true with 8000-9000 people at the start. Fifteen years ago there were only about 42% as many people at the start as there were in 2006. Tell me that doesn't make a huge difference.

In any case it's never been true that "10,000 of them can barely do a 10 minute mile," as Archway claims. Just look at the median stats to see this.

And if "Stan Archway" ran the Boilermaker between 1985 and 2006, the years I was its timer, he doesn't show up as a finisher. That doesn't mean he can't insult the race if he wants to, but I don't think it gives his insults much force.

Finally, I'm surprised that any thoughtful runner would diss the Boilermaker field. We're not talking about a charity 5k run here, where you might have a few hundred serious runners and thousands of people taking an easy stroll for their cause.

No! In Utica we have thousands of people doing 15k, that's 3 x 5k, in July, with hills. That's hardly a stroll in the park.

*The median, for those who don't know, is the value half-way between the extremes. It can be more informative than the average because it's not sensitive to the distribution. In this data set there's not much difference between the median and the mean (average), which implies that the distribution of times is roughly "normal."

I understand what Archway is saying. I've run the 'Maker 13 times and I must admit, the bigger it gets, the "less" it becomes. I run 45-55 miles per week and run with a bunch of guys that do the same. We all think the Boilermaker is a great race but it's gotten "too big for it's britches" in a lot of ways. It's far more of an event than a race nowadays. If you live in the area and run like we do, you're almost obligated to run it. Having said that, there are FAR better local races than the Boilermaker (with all due respect to the great volunteers etc.). One race that comes to mind is the Falling Leaves...much better race. Anyways - good luck to everyone running this weekend.

C'mon, nobody is "obligated" to run the b'maker. And if you're logging 50 mpw I assume you're more than a hobby jogger and thus, in one of the earlier corrals. As such, it should make no difference to you if there's 2,000 people behind you or 7,000. Granted, the PARTY is more crowded, but the race is similar.

I whole heartedly agree that Falling Leaves is a great race (races, actually)! I wish more people would consider doing it. The 5k is pretty flat and fast, and the 14k is very scenic and challenging. The Summer Sizzle 5 miler (two weeks before) is another great race and is unique in that it features separate men's and women's races.

I'm bib 151 this year. If you see me, say hi.

Well I'm too far away to be able to run your race but I think you deserve a trophy for just putting up with people's criticism. Coordinating a race is a thankless job.

thanks! i am seeded in 65:20ish so was trying to figure out if i was moving up a corral this year...old fat guys like me gotta move faster before that happens!

JIm------- so since i did not get in the sub elite, do they still go by your time seed to line up? This is my first HUGE race like this. If its the way i picture it i would be RIGHT behind the sub elites? All most just as good.

Jim,

I chatted with Steve Boyd (~ 1:05 HM 2-3 years ago as a master) a few days back and he told me he hadn't heard anything back from the race (he bailed last year a few days before the race after the onset of a medical issue, maybe that made a difference). I don't imagine he was applying as sub-elite (since even when out of shape, he's way faster than that, being one of Canada's top couple of masters runners), but thought I would bring this to you attention here, in case you could maybe bring this to the attention of the right person. Suppose I coulda emailed you, but we're moving, and I've got internet access but no email access.

Good luck for the race this weekend.

You're right - the Summer Sizzle is another great race as is the S.O.S.....Lots to choose from and all are set up very well.

Good luck in the race this weekend.

Steve Boyd needs to contact Dick Mattia, who is the invited athlete coordinator.

He should do this by calling the Boilermaker office and getting Dick's contact information (I have it even though I'm no longer the timer, but I'm obviously not going to post it on a public board).

He can get the race telephone and fax numbers from

www.boilermaker.com

.

Pete,

I know Dick Mattia was in the loop about Steve Boyd as Dick and I corresponded about it via email. But as I don't do the elite, I had no reason to follow-up on it. Steve should definitely contact Dick ASAP. If he's having trouble, have Steve contact me at letsrun at dissidents dot com and I'll do my best to get them linked up.

chefdrp, you DID make it into semi-elite, but in any case, you are correct that the following corrals do stack up by time (just not within the corrals, that's by the honor system).

Another way of looking at the statistics is to tabulate the number of runners below certain arbitrary times. I don't have all of the data, but for the past few years it looks something like this:

Year < 50:00 < 60:00 <70:00

2006 44 342 1249

2005 26 311 1318

2004 29 335 1315

2003 41 397 1530

2002 46 ~380 ~1400

2001 ~48 ~400 ~1520

So it looks as competitive as ever at the front of the pack, but it does look like there have been fewer finishers under an hour than five years ago. Of course it looks like a stronger field this year, and I'll go out on a limb and say that the < 60:00 numbers will bounce back to the 400 range.

They changed the course. It used to be about 20-30 seconds faster. This race is the greatest race ever. There are more spectators on the course than any other race I have ever been apart of. I ran 51 minutes before the change and 52 after the change. The course added 3 turns and it made it more challenging. If running down to the finish does not blow you away. I get excited just thinking of it. I agree the post race party was better when it was smaller. The race has always been the very best. I get to the start pretty early find a place to sit and think about my race.besides the pizza in utica is amazing.Jim i cant make it this year.the 1st time sence 1986.i am extremly disappointed.i will be thinking of all of you and good luck.