Attempting Minimalism

dont do it. you'll regret it.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

I'm not asking for a debate. I'm asking for advice.

1. The Pose and Chi drills might help reduce injury. I really worked hard at the Pose method for nine months before realizing that to go faster, you have to push off. My form went from heel strike to forefoot using the Pose and my knee problems of ten years went away.

I'm now a bit more like what Thomas Miller describes in his book "Programmed to Run." The Pose drills and Chi drills are good as training drills. I still use them, but to run fast, you have to add some push off, in my opinion.

2. Review your journal to see what initially caused each injury. I have a friend who never realized that most of her injuries were actually coming from cross training until I quizzed her on each injury.

3. There's too many rocks and broken glass to run barefoot where I live. I do one recovery run a week in cheap water shoes... basically it's just a rubber-like outsole with a mesh top and velcro fastener. The reason I do this is that I believe that it trains the muscles to land the foot properly. If your foot lands wrong running barefoot, you'll know it immediately. I can feel a slight burning sensation after each run from the muscles that don't get used in my normal shoes. By the way, there is a LOT of difference between barefoot and racing flats or XC flats.

4. You haven't really described your injuries, other than a reference to tendinitis. What are your injuries? Someone can probably offer some specific advice. - Good luck.

OldXCguy wrote:

txRUNNERgirl,

Sorry to hear of your running woes. Your love for the sport is evident, and I know how tough it can be when we

are injured and unable to participate.

You might take a look at this:

http://www.chirunning.com/shop/home.php

Chi Running generally gets bashed on this site (like Pose),

but if you are open-minded, it can be pretty helpful.

Oh and BTW, unlike other posters here, I'm not a shill or

an employee. It's been helpful for me, and perhaps it

might help you too.

Between Chirunning and the advice that Lawoof gave, you will find your answer. Jaguar1 has also made excellent posts regarding minimalism and balance. Good luck.

I wrote a lengthy history of my injuries, but if you do not want to read the whole thing, this is it in a nutshell:

Injuries (excluding the tendonitis): tibial stress fracture and severe chronic tibial stress reaction.

Causes: everything you can think of......running on concrete, running some regular runs on a track in the same direction everyday (during high school), low bone density, anemorrhea, wasn't eating enough (I also had an eating disorder before I got into running), overtraining, increasing mileage too soon (I went from 35 mpw to 60 mpw in a short period of time during high school), running my easy runs too fast, running 7 days a week, muscle imbalances, etc.

________________________________________________________

The tendonitis I had last fall wasn't a major injury. It went away just fine with rest, heating, and stretching. I think that was caused by wearing Nike Frees as casual shoes (walking a lot around campus, etc.). I thought I would be okay if I didn't run in them, but even for walking I should have built up more slowly since my feet were used to support. But that is also why I am being careful with any barefoot or minimalist running.

The major injury I had was a tibial stress fracture in my right leg. I do not remember the exact first time I felt pain in my shin, but I'm fairly sure it was my sophomore year of high school, which was also the first year I ran. Whether it started as shin splints and progressed to a stress fracture, I'm not sure, but nevertheless I ignored the pain and ran on it for the next few years. It never hurt to stand, walk, or run on it. It only hurt if I pressed on my shin and it severely hurt if I bumped my leg into something.

When I got to college, we had physicals before the start of the year. I asked one of the doctors about it and he told me that as long as it didn't hurt when I ran, I shouldn't worry about it. So I ran on it for another year.

During the summer between my freshman and sophomore year of college, I was running great, building up my mileage, and was ready to have an awesome cross country season. I was also working and had to stand for several hours at a time, which may have made things worse. My shin was starting to hurt at random times during the day, even if I was sitting still. My mom noticed it seemed more swollen than usual, so she finally forced me to see a doctor. I did and an MRI proved I had a stress fracture.

I thought I'd take 6-8 weeks off, get some orthotics, and everything would be fine. Well, it wasn't. A combination of things, like running too much too fast too soon, made the pain come back and gradually get worse and worse. When it started during my runs, I went back to another doctor because I was afraid I might have refractured it. That doctor told me it wasn't a fracture this time, but a severe chronic stress reaction, that could lead to a stress fracture. He told me he'd never seen a case as bad as mine.

I took more time off and got a new set of orthotics. I ran for a while and then the pain came back. So I took another 6 weeks off, started back gradually, and still ended up hurting again. Summer came and I took a few more weeks off yet again. This time I started back much more slowly, starting with 5-10 minutes easy jogging every other day and progressing to about 40 mpw (which isn't much at all compared to what I was supposed to be running)by the end of the summer. I trained with cross country and raced a couple of times, but of course now I ran slow.

Despite doing the hard workouts with the team, I was still running a lot less easy mileage per week. Since I did not have a good base and also had some nutritional deficiencies (iron especially), I quickly began to burn out and feel very weak when I ran. My shin pain began to come back and I had yet another set of orthotics made, which didn't help too much. I later developed tendonitis. That was when I decided this was not working anymore and I quit the team. I was spending too much time and energy being injured and stressing out. I knew that I didn't have enough time to get back to where I needed to be running-wise, if ever, and felt like I was a burden to the team.

Since January, I have been training on my own. I was doing a triathlon training program for several months that allowed me to run about every other day, so I didn't have too much trouble with my shin and if I did, I just switched around the workouts. I stopped that training plan a couple of weeks ago and tried to run several days in a row, 30-40 minutes easy each day. I was fine until last Friday, when the pain came back and I took a few days off from running. I think it was hurting because I ran on concrete/asphalt, including some big hills, all that week.

I've run a few times this week, but am going by feeling. My shin might hurt slightly after I run, but usually it goes away within the next 24 hours. I might still need to run every other day for now, even though I've been doing that for a long time now. I was just too excited to run back to back days. I just want to run without hurting, but maybe that's impossible.

I'm also certain that those who have tried minimalism and got hurt did not follow the slow transition that Lawoof lays out.

I transitioned VERY slow, but still got injured.

I am in Month Number 6 of a stress reaction in my lesser trochanter (hip stress fraction in general vicinity of insertion of iliopsoas tendon).

I started in Jan 2006 with 0.33 mile intervals X 4 or 5 sets, 3 times per week, did lots of drills, balancing on forefoot, hops, all the recommended stuff 3 times per week.

SLOWLY increased to 2 mile runs X 3 per week by March, then to 3 mile runs by May, then to 4 mile runs by July, 5 mile runs by October, 6 to 6.5 by december 2006. All 3 times per week with 20 minutes before each run of Pose drills.

Transitioned shoes slowly, started with my old Kayanos, switched every other run to XC shoes in June-July, switched to 9 oz. shoes with flatter heel in October.

Got a stress fracture of the hip in December.

The biomechanics of forefoot striking are very unnatural for me, personally. I have had videos analyzed and studied and restudied my form.

The main reason I switched was because of F**K'd up meniscus in July 2005, so I had poor shock absorption in the knee and felt knee pain heel striking. Before that I was a SUCCESSFUL heel striker for 27 years.

Now I am not sure what I will do when the Ortho clears me to run again. I might just try going back to heel striking. I don't want to risk being out another 6 to 8 months if I get another hip stress fracture.

Shin splints huh? Minimalism will do NOTHING for you then, because you'll stress your lower legs EVER MORE.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

I'm not asking for a debate. I'm asking for advice.

My, time for another scream for attention eh?

You started that massive Pose argument a while back and now you are looking for more "advice"?

Why don't you get another hobby, buy some Goldfish or something, instead of starting threads designed to bring out all the wack job pose and chi idiots.

Have you ever considered a battery operated device to occupy some time?

The only person I see stirring shit up and looking for attention here is you. First as "Hal is my Pal" and now as "Here we go again"

The ones who turned the Pose thread into a fight were Asterix and that Pose advocate who posted under his real name (ostensibly). Not txRunnerGirl. There are plenty of opportunities to slam her for opinions of hers your might not like. This is not a valid one.

Why don't you find something constructive to do and let this thread remain an actual civilized discussion?

Arthur_ wrote:

Shin splints huh? Minimalism will do NOTHING for you then, because you'll stress your lower legs EVER MORE.

That's what I thought, but didn't jaguar1 have 7 stress fractures before she turned to minimalism?

txRunnerGirl, I admit I haven't read this whole thread but are you a heel striker, forefoot striker or midfoot?

I have found that running in more minimal shoes (not competely minimal but close to it) has greatly helped me avoid injuries that used to plague me. I think they can help you too, even with stress fractures, but it depends upon how you run.

Here is my completely unscientific thinking about it that has come with 27+ years of running.

The key is not the shoes but rather your running form. Your legs have natural, built in shock absorption in the form of calf muscles and lower leg tendons. But in order to take advantage of these mechanisms, you can't be a heel striker.

Land mid-to-forefoot and much of the shock is dissipated into the extension of your achilles tendon and calf muscles.

Land on your heel and all the shock goes to your legs. Big, thick-heeled shoes can take some of it but not nearly the amount that you can dissipate with just good form.

I think that's why some people have such success with minimalist shoes. They are forced to land mid to forefoot and to use that mechanism. But they are not a requirement to run that way. You can still run very well in thicker shoes provided you have good form.

I think that's also why some people seem to have terrible experiences with minimalist shoes. They switch to shoes with no heel cushioning but retain their heel-striking stride, or at least revert to it when they get tired. Injury is the natural result.

I've been lucky in that I was running from a young age and was primarily a forefoot/midfoot striker so transitioning to less shoe was not as difficult for me as it might be for some. But still it was an adjustment. I had always been a 50-70 mpw guy, running most of it hard. I didn't start doing higher mileage until I was in my 30s. All that mileage made me faster but it fatigued me quite a bit too. My form suffered and small overuse injuries creeped in.

Switching to flats and lightweight trainers forced me to think about my stride and make it more efficient. At first, it forced me to back off from the very high mileage I was doing too. With less shoe, I only did as much mileage as I could until my form started to suffer and then had to stop. Over the past couple of years my mileage has creeped back up to the levels I want.

But again, less shoe is not a requirement for good form, it just pretty much enforces it or -- if you don't acquire it -- leaves you injured.

When you start out, just have a 1 mile loop from your house so that you can make your early attempts as long or short as possible. One thing that is tough is how tired your feet, ankles and calves will become - you do not want to be 2 miles from your house when your legs start flopping around and risk injury on the way back! I agree with Avg. Joe in that running with less shoe makes you run with better form, or else you will know you are not very quickly! I am still in the early stages of the transition, but have always run in lighter-weight performance trainers, and am naturally a forefoot striker also, so it has not been that difficult. Having said that, it still takes a toll on the tendons and muscles in my lower legs, so I usually will run 2 days, then take 2 days off for my legs to recover. My runs are only in the 2-3 mile range, but I'm usually pretty tired afterwards, as I try to run them fast and the resulting lower leg work wears me out.