Coach won't budge........what to do?

If the coach isn't running with you or timing your runs, why not just run at the pace you want to? i.e. run slower on recovery days?

because he will be come September. It doesn't matter if I am running 80 mpw, if they aren't near 6:00, he won't even let ya time-trial for a walk-on spot.

Don't be dumb. You're not going to get better following his program. You're not going to get better if you follow his program over the summer. You should confront him about it and let him know that the athletes can be much better with smarter training. Do what you need to do this summer. Run relaxed and comfortable, come back and kick everybody's butts. Run 7 minute pace when you need to, run 6 minute pace when you need to. Do that, and you might find yourself going sub 6 with ease on some days. And that can be your proof when you tell coach his methods aren't working. Train smart!

I think the best thing you can do is figure out what you can do over the summer to make yourself a better runner. Do whatever makes sense for you in the long term. I know you don't really have a lot of time before school starts again. If you're the kind of guy who responds well to higher mileage, my completely uneducated opinion would be to go for it -- when you get back to school and have to run according to your retard coach's program, it might be harder for the first week but you'll be able to deal with it better once you're half way through the semester.

Of course, I thought the same thing, and I was cut from the team my senior year after running a mediocre time trial in early September. So if getting cut is something you need to worry about, maybe you should start getting more faster runs in a week or two (say) before school starts.

Heh, so i agreed with the previous poster.

I'm sure we all want to know what school you go to, and I know you probably won't tell us, but can you at least tell us the division? Is it Div III?

D-1, the distance program is nothing to get excited about, however it does exist, which is a plus compared to the unlucky ones suffering from Title-IX. I guess it could be worse. I was sort of thinking the same as you were, upping the mileage, worry about the pace the last 2 or 3 weeks of summer so i'm somewhat used to the pace when i get back, and hopefully, the mileage will allow me to increase the pace slightly each week until i can handle it. I was thinking of pure mileage for june. A tempo or two a week for early to mid-july, then try to get to 3 or 4 runs each week, maybe every other day that are atleast 75% at 6:15 pace or so. I am not really worried about having a stellar XC season, as we only compete a few times, but more worried about just proving that i can handle the track workouts in the fall, so that when spring rolls around, i will have the chance to travel to the bigger meets we attend. I was not even planning on running a single workout until i went back to school, but then realized that a few tempo runs to remind my body what 6:00 pace feels like would make it so much easier. I honestly just don't know what the best way to go about doing this would be.

You don't understand! The purpose for coaching is to KILL runners. I thought everybody knew that. All the great coaches have killed runners. If you listen to your coach and truely SACREFICE perhaps you can be the one who dies trying to train at 6 minute pace every day. Think of what a glorious coach you will have had if you do.

I too would like to know what D-1 school you are going to because I would surely recomment to other runners not to go there.

Trouble with coaches is that often times they have not actually BEEN a runner or even if they were a runner, not an accomplished runner. They do not understand where you are or how you got there. They read books! It is so easy to read some sort of training manual and actually BELIEVE it IF you never really did it yourself. They all sound sooooo logical.

The head coach at the school where I coach was not a runner too. That coach insists on Gereral Fitness Drills at least twice a week. Those drills are like race walking 10 miles and then trying to run fast. They un-tone your muscles and it takes several days to recover from them. That mistake could not have happened IF the coach had been a runner. If you are a high school senior looking for a good university check to make sure the coach was a good runner. It will save you a whole lot of trouble like Yippekiyekiyo is having.

Well kid, you've got problems.

#1. Your coach really doesn't know what he's doing, or, you are misunderstanding him. Make sure it’s the first before proceeding on.

#2. If what you say is true, you won’t become a better runner and you’re better off on your own.

#3. If you want to stay on the team or stay at that school, you should get in touch with some of senior runners this summer and get their opinion. If, like you say, they agree with you then you need to propose to them that there be an ATHLETES ONLY meeting at the beginning of the season to see where the team stands with the coach. Make sure that the seniors are running the show though. If the team feels the way you do, then you ALL need to go to the coach together and confront him. If he still doesn’t see the light OR you all feel that you’d be better of without him, go to the Athletic Director with the problem.

Make sure that this is all very organized and not just whiny. Bring books and tables on training paces and running. I would use Daniels as the best source.

After that, if you need a new coach, I’d be happy to step in ;)

I want to add that, from someone who has been there, quitting the team should be a last resort. Better to get the coach fired. Being on a cross country team in college can be one of the best experiences of your life.

I also think you should make sure of #1. Are you sure the guys on the team actually *do* run faster than 6 mins/mile every day?

ghjds wrote:

I want to add that, from someone who has been there, quitting the team should be a last resort. Better to get the coach fired. Being on a cross country team in college can be one of the best experiences of your life.

I also think you should make sure of #1. Are you sure the guys on the team actually *do* run faster than 6 mins/mile every day?

Yeah, no kidding. I'm sure a team that has the best runner running mid 15's isn't running sub 6 pace everyday. I'm not really following this. He won't even let you time-trial to be on the team if you aren't running sub 6 minute pace for all your runs? I know most of the runners aren't doing said pace unless you are running 30-40 miles per week. So do you just have to bust out a few sub 6 minute workouts and then time-trial your way onto the team? How does it work? If you start running your workouts slower than 6 min/mile do you get kicked off?

No way should your coach be putting you through this kind of regime at your ages. You must be worn out and burnt out by fall. Try the Summer of Malmo summer training base phase plan. You will see this on many threads here. sub6 every day is the road to failure and you must be bored with the repetion- you need variation in training to maintain motivation and committment to running man!

Your coach should be sacked. Go to Director and discuss your concerns in a civilised manner with a few others from the team.

Hope you get through the summer and get this sorted so that you are prepared for the comimg season with full strength and lots of powerful speed!

The best coaches are the ones who were not great runner. the not so great runners/coach had to study the sport and learn what it really takes. THIS TYPE OF COACH HAS COMMON SENSE!

I appreciate all the responses. Yes, i am sure that i am on the same page as him. We hear it no less than 2 or 3 times per practice while stretching. It is almost as if running sub-6 everday is the magic trick, such as when a 1:54 guy says while stretching "coach, i am just burnt out right now, i havn't completed a good workout in 2 weeks, how about i ease off today so i can be somewhat fresh for tomorrow's intervals." His response is usually the same, "Joe Schmo, if you want to win conference this year, just do it. Listen to me and you will win conference"

It is sort of funny actually when we hear, "ok guys, lets pick the pace up a bit today, pretty close to a tempo pace, so right around 5:45 or 5:50, with the last mile at 5:40'ish." And we all look at each other and think to ourselves, 10 seconds faster per mile is the difference between everday training pace and a faster tempostyle run??

We have about two guys on the team who could drop a sub-16 at this point, and they run right at 6:05-6:10 at practice. Whether Saturday and Sunday are the same, i'm not sure, but they are definitely following this training philosophy on the weekdays.

The guy's personality is pretty cool. He is a decent guy to sit around and talk to, so getting him fired and all that stuff is really a last resort, not to mention, i'm not so sure the athletic department even knows we have a distance squad. I am going to atleast try to work it out on my own this year, before attempting a "strike" or "team meeting".

That being said, i guess a "summer of malmo" would be the best bet, then try to acclimate myself slowly into this philosophy.

ghjds wrote:

Heh, so i agreed with the previous poster.

I'm sure we all want to know what school you go to, and I know you probably won't tell us, but can you at least tell us the division? Is it Div III?

why would you assume this is a d3 program? these idiotic coaches exist across all divisions.

any others

In my program, we ran slower than 6:00/mile maybe 2-3 times/year. Even the warmups/cooldowns & days before a meet were easily sub-6:00. As a 17:58 5K XC guy from HS (I am a guy), that was a huge adjustment. But it worked wonders for me and in hindsight wouldn't exchange that training I went through with any other. I remember when I TRIED to run 7:00 miles during the Thanksgiving holiday (on my own), but it was too easy to run 6:00 instead. My legs were on a whole different level regarding what felt fast & slow. In my case, I'm convinced this training was best for me... but understandably, it's not for everyone.

That brings great hope to me, maybe i will be one of the lucky ones that this training style works wonders for.

You can ask questions of your Coach's methods without embarrassing them or putting your place on the team in jeopardy. Ask for something in writing, ask for more information, ask for help...

Here's two questions for you...

"Is that working for you?" and

"What were you thinking?"

It's a cruel world and you must make your Coach happy or you are out of there. Gerry the Jogger is correct, most Coaches will run their team into the ground and the few that survive they can add to their resume' as success stories. The choice is yours. If your Coach asks you to do something outrageous, just let them know you will "give it the ol' college try!" If you want to succeed in a D1 program you have to increase your mileage and to do that successfully you have to back off on the pace.

Run 90 minutes a day X 7 days (nine minute miles) in June, but remember LSD is the key to you surviving this Coach's plans for you. Build a strong base based on mileage.

Try one hour and 45 minutes a day X 7 days (again at nine minute miles) through July. When you are tired, take a break, give yourself a rest or pack it in early on a day when you are not 100% or if the temps. or humidity hit 100%. August? Easy 90 minute runs, maybe do two, 2-Hr. runs and then back off on your weekly mileage mid month so you will have fresh legs when you head back to Coach that you have so much faith and confidence in.

If you are serious about succeeding, next time post with an e-mail address and you will get advice and counsel from real Coaches.

Wrong Jerry wrote:

The best coaches are the ones who were not great runner. the not so great runners/coach had to study the sport and learn what it really takes. THIS TYPE OF COACH HAS COMMON SENSE!

The problem is that a lot of the coaches who didn't run themselves, and therefore should devote themselves to studying the sport, never do. The people who study the sport the most are, in my experience, the ones who participate in it. How many people do you actually know who have never been distance runners but decide that they are so interested in coaching distance runners that they take the time to make a meaningful study of the sport? As far as I can see, most of the non-distance runners who end up coaching distance runners do so because they wanted to coach sprinters but got offered the distance squad as a consolation prize--hence their ill-advised emphasis on daily fast pace.

OP, I have to echo the very first reply and tell you to just run your own pace as soon as you are out of the coach's sight.