Running the 800

haha well the funny thing is that you are almost absolutely modeled with mcmillans running calculator(scroll down and enter 15:20 for the 5k time and it'll show you equivalent performances for other distances). The 400 that it provides is a second slower than your 400, so maybe you should be running a 1:57-:58. it's the beginning of the season anyway. you should be able to drop a couple of more seconds over the next month and a half.

here's the calculator

http://mcmillanrunning.com/rununiv/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm

53/1:59 ... It's about right on- drop that 400 bit and you might shave another few seconds. You are aerobically strong.

Pacing- learn the pace (28-29/200) through hard but relaxed intervals of 200-600m. Sahrpen with some 400-pace work and races. In the race, go out quick the first 50-60m, get position, then settle in to your pace. Don't get sucked into sprinting the first 300m. A 400 split of 57 should set you up for a nice PR.

Also, use the search function to find a plethora of other threads on the 8700, some quite recent.

typos- "Sharpen" and 800 (not 8700!)

Thank you very much for the link to the pace calculator. A quick question... I have no problem running mid 25's in the 200, is it possible that my 400 meter time is slower than what it should be based on my 200 time? When I entered 25 seconds into the pace calculator my projected 400 time was 52.3 and my projected 800 time was 1:54, however the mile and 5k times were much quicker than my PR's (4:14 and 14:42 compared to 4:20 and 15:29)

the calculator is probably for "older", more advanced runners.

"older", more advanced = more aerobically developed. it probably models the elites better than it does highschoolers or college runners that are more anaerobically balanced or whatever.

That calculator is a little off for the shorter distances. Mid-25 (race effort out of blocks?) is slow for a 53 400, but is in line with your 800/mile. Your 4:20 mile is significantly ahead of all your other times.

No I have run mid 25's several times during workouts, but have only run the 400 all out once or twice, which is why I think I can run somewhere in the 52's possibly faster with more focus on speed.

I know that I'm more of a distance runner 5k/10k type and will be in college, but any advice on how to improve my 800 time would be greatly appreciated.

Does anyone have any other ideas on how best to pace myself and run the race?

25 and 53 are pretty much right on. In fact, it would show you have very good endurance because to run 53 you'd want to come through 200m a bit under 26.

You seem to be in pretty good condition. Not like some guys out there.

i've heard that a good strategy is a fast first 400m, but not killing yourself. coast the next 200m, just hang on. and then kick it in.

personally i just go balls to the wall the whole time

personally wrote:

i've heard that a good strategy is a fast first 400m, but not killing yourself. coast the next 200m, just hang on. and then kick it in.

personally i just go balls to the wall the whole time

Please don't listen to this advice.

right. if you're a pussy, don't listen to my advice.

run your 800m at comfortable, relaxed pace

I think Mtn Dew's dissagreement was with with your advice to coast the 200 between 400 and 600 meters into the race, not that your race strategy is any easier than others, just possibly not as strong of a tactic.

Running "balls to the wall" is a horrible way to run a 400m, much less an 800m.

The best way to run an 800m is to run the first 200m at about 1.5-2 seconds TOPS faster than goal pace. One should reach 400m about the same. From 400-600m should be at your goal pace or so, which means you need to start moving to maintain pace and set yourself up for a finishing "kick".

Running 2:00 should be around 28.5/30/30.5/31. Balls to the wall would be like 26/28/32/34. I have athletes that try to do this and it's frustating as hell to watch.

400-600 is a very important part of an 800m.

When I ran 1:59 my splits were as follows for each 200:

28,30,30,30 not sure about the hundreths, but it averaged out to just under two minutes.

However, I find it much more difficult to run this evenly in larger invitationals, where the leaders open up in 54-55 and everyone else follows. Usually when I run the 800 it is as part of the 4x800 team and I lead off, its difficult to establish position and move up without passing on the curves if I go out conservatively.

So another question.... Is the best strategy in larger invites still to try and run evenly or is there some other method I should consider?

Thank you for all the advice thus far anymore would be appreciated.

In relays and big meets people tend to get away from their race plans. I understand that sometimes folks have to maintain contact and all that, but sometimes people let things get away from them.

A teammate of mine was fortunate enough to win 3 state titles in H.S. He opened up at state his final year in about 28 seconds, well back of the field. He came through 400m right at 56 flat, the top guys ran 55 point. On the back stretch my teammate opened it up and got clear of the field quickly while they had to ty to save up for the final "kick". He was well ahead by then and finished in 1:54 flat with second place two seconds back. It was the best 800m race I've ever watched and it was textbook. He split 56 flat/58 flat. Second ran about 55.5/60.5.

I have two guys this year that ought to be unde 2:00. One ran 1:59 last year and the other 2:06 last year. One has split 1:57 and the other has run 2:01 high. They never execute in races. The one guy that has split 1:57 has been running 2:00 this year in open races. He usually goes out in 26 high or 27 flat in his open races, then runs 30-31 seconds for his next 200m. It drives me crazy. The two times this year he's split under 2:00 he went out conservatively.

If you are in a big race or a relay you need to do your thing. Don't make the 800m a terrible war of attrition.

I think that you could probably run 52. middle for the 400 based on what you've said, and with that and your mile time i would reckon about a 1:55 to 1:56. last year i was a 52. 400 runner and had a pr of 4:23 and was able to run a 1:55 and split a 1:54. Your 5k time is way better than mine as well leading to the conclusion of better aroebic conditioning. Try to go through the 400 in 57 and then hit the second 400 in 59. I've found that two second positive split is the fastest way to run a 800. Also make sure you are doing 4-6 strides 3 times a week after your longer runs. that will help with the last 200 of the 800 a lot.

1st 400 within 3 - 4 secs. of best. Next 200 try to maintain at no more than 1 to 2 secs. slower than the 400 pace.

You're on your own after 600 ie. gut check time!

I've had all levels of runners. They have all started with this plan and then tweaked as they matured in racing.

By the way, if you can't get your time diffrential down to no more than 4 secs between first and 2nd lap, preferalby 2 to 3 secs., you may be going out too quick or you may need to look at another distance ie. 1500-mile, or just more maturing.

Best wishes.

Had Afew Gooduns wrote:

1st 400 within 3 - 4 secs. of best. Next 200 try to maintain at no more than 1 to 2 secs. slower than the 400 pace.

I disagree with this. A 49 second 400m runner would go out in 52-53 and then run another 200m in 26. That's 600m in 1:21. That's too fast. A 53 runner would go out in 56-57, then run another 200m in 28, passing 600m in 1:24. Even worse, a girl with a 400m best of 62 would go out in 65, then run 30 to come through 600m in 1:35.

That's too aggressive. It's best to run splits based off percentages and to run more even splits.

Alright, my math sucks on that one. A 49 guy would run 52/25 for 1:17. A 53 guy would run 56/27 for a 1:23 and a 62 second girl (or boy) would run 65/31 fo a 1:36. All of those are too aggressive. Alberto Juantorena would have to go out in 47/22 point for a 1:09 or 1:10. Borz would un 48/23 for a 1:11.

It's too aggressive.