Navicular Stress Fracture: Advice Wanted

for being educated you sound like a complete moron. whats happens if something goes wrong with the surgery. Cover your ass for gods sake.

Me a complete moron? Hint: don't take everything you read literally.

I vote surgery. Two months in a boot is probably not going to fix something that 15 months off didn't.

And there is a major downside to being in a boot. Prolonged immobilization causes severe degenerative changes (atrophy) in all the musculoskeletal tissues- bone, muscle, tendon, cartilage, etc. Two months in a boot may require three months of rehab before you can run safely again. IF you attempt to run too soon without rehabbing properly you could cause injuries more severe than the ones you started with.

As a podiatrist that specializes in non surgical sportsmedicine podiatry, I would agree that the surgical option would be better. The nonunion which you now have may be nonhealing at this point which does not respond well to bone stimulation. Please feel free to e-mail if any questions.

I am in almost the exact same situation. I fractured my foot last February in an indoor track race and the podiatrist said I would absolutely need to get surgery. Well, I didn't and now regret it and I plan on getting surgery after the snow melts (crutches in Ithaca are going to suck).

Tried the boot and bone stimulator (on 6 month old fracture) = 3 months wasted time! Had the screw put in and it healed 150% and pr'ed 6 months after surgery.

I also had two pins in my navicular, and also use the bone stimulator after surgery.

LAZY LLAMA (?) your story is so ironic to me because it is almost exactly as mine. Did it take you long to do short and long sprints when training for the 400m?

Can you tell me about your experience with the 800m during that time. I specialize in the 800m but can still run a very fast 400m and am wondering which to focus on since I had surgery.

Some doctors reccommend conservative treatment (8 weeks in a real cast with crutches, bone stimulator)... but after my own personal experience (6 months out and counting, conservative treatment), I wish I put a pin in mine from the start. Mine is finally starting to heal but the doctors told me that if it fractures again, I should just go straight to surgery.

For those of you who have or had navicular fractures, did you find that they were not all that uncomfortable to run on?

I've been running on mine for almost a year now. I've taken a month off on two separate occasions and it just flairs back up again. Mine hasn't been too uncomfortable to run on for the most part. Usually I just have pain in the morning and anytime I put weight on it after sitting or lying down for an extended time. The pain has actually increased in the past week though, which sucks because nationals at next weekend.

First of Wejo you need to find out what cause the stress fracture in the first palce, a locust didn't bite your navicular on a tempo run. It could be biomechanical to metabolic, you never know.

Most people on this board probably are gonna figure out what I'm gonna say next, but the fact you've had a lot of foot injuries tells me your peroneals are extremely tight. This could be caused by strength/tightness problems all the up to and including your back and back down again. As far as running is concerned, once you get back and your on the track, think toes UP, not down like a damn ballerina. Look at the Canova post over Christmas as to why Bekele is soo successful.

You need to spend $19.95 on a myofascial release foam roller (the black ones). Also I would talk to Cornell's strength coach and get into a good strength program. I don't give a rat's ass if your a 10k/Marathon guy, you're human and humans can always be stronger regardless of how much miles they run a week. If you think running gives you plenty of strength I got sub-tropical condomiums to sell you on top of Mt. Humphreys.

You may be the fastest American 10k guy without a shoe deal but the fastest debut was by an Alan Webb, who last time I checked was a miler you lifts alot and THE RIGHT WAY. And at that meet he beat Ritz, who last time I checked still looks like he is in junior high and specializes in the 10k. Hicham looks like a 12 year old too, and peaked out at a 265lb squat (~120kg). THe reason Geb had to stop running track and got his achilles injury is because ("I have not gotten in the gym enough, I have been too busy with my business.") And no, you will not gain weight and it will NOT hamper your recovery, promise. The first 2-3 weeks of real back squats are gonna probably suck, man up and after that, if everything is done CORRECTLY you'll be forever healthy. Start with dumbells and progress to back/front parallel then as deep as you can go. Trust me.

I don't wanna agree with trackhead, because he has no real knowledge of physiology (and I'm not amazing either), calling your proprioceptors (Golgi Tendons/Muscle spindles) proproceptors and other nonsensical crap, but he is right on the fact that if we needed orthodics and all these huge pillow midsoles, these indigenous tribes all over the world would not be thriving for 1,000's of years. Unless you have a skeletal defect (which is possible) in your talar joint some myofascial release and glute activation/proper strength training with good technique along with your therapy will make it all better for good.

Want an opinion on your foot? Nail it and get it over with, saddle up and get back to it man, before you get a complex I am am battling from shitty coaching for 4+ years.

Need anything else e-mail me, ask Nobby.

First of Wejo you need to find out what cause the stress fracture in the first palce, a locust didn't bite your navicular on a tempo run. It could be biomechanical to metabolic, you never know.

Most people on this board probably are gonna figure out what I'm gonna say next, but the fact you've had a lot of foot injuries tells me your peroneals are extremely tight. This could be caused by strength/tightness problems all the up to and including your back and back down again. As far as running is concerned, once you get back and your on the track, think toes UP, not down like a damn ballerina. Look at the Canova post over Christmas as to why Bekele is soo successful.

You need to spend $19.95 on a myofascial release foam roller (the black ones). Also I would talk to Cornell's strength coach and get into a good strength program. I don't give a rat's ass if your a 10k/Marathon guy, you're human and humans can always be stronger regardless of how much miles they run a week. If you think running gives you plenty of strength I got sub-tropical condomiums to sell you on top of Mt. Humphreys.

You may be the fastest American 10k guy without a shoe deal but the fastest debut was by an Alan Webb, who last time I checked was a miler you lifts alot and THE RIGHT WAY. And at that meet he beat Ritz, who last time I checked still looks like he is in junior high and specializes in the 10k. Hicham looks like a 12 year old too, and peaked out at a 265lb squat (~120kg). THe reason Geb had to stop running track and got his achilles injury is because ("I have not gotten in the gym enough, I have been too busy with my business.") And no, you will not gain weight and it will NOT hamper your recovery, promise. The first 2-3 weeks of real back squats are gonna probably suck, man up and after that, if everything is done CORRECTLY you'll be forever healthy. Start with dumbells and progress to back/front parallel then as deep as you can go. Trust me.

I don't wanna agree with trackhead, because he has no real knowledge of physiology (and I'm not amazing either), calling your proprioceptors (Golgi Tendons/Muscle spindles) proproceptors and other nonsensical crap, but he is right on the fact that if we needed orthodics and all these huge pillow midsoles, these indigenous tribes all over the world would not be thriving for 1,000's of years. Unless you have a skeletal defect (which is possible) in your talar joint some myofascial release and glute activation/proper strength training with good technique along with your therapy will make it all better for good.

Want an opinion on your foot? Nail it and get it over with, saddle up and get back to it man, before you get a complex I am am battling from shitty coaching for 4+ years.

Need anything else e-mail me, ask Nobby.

wejo wrote:

I think my doctor is trying to just turn a quick buck. It's bfull1 who posts on here. He used to have good intentions on here, giving out free medical advice, but I think he got into some poker debts.

I feel like he's trying to drum up business on here to fuel his poker habit. Originally I thought his buddy was going to do the surgery but now he says will be doing it, and I should just pay him cash and we can do it as his office instead of the hospital.

I just got an email on this. The comments about a quick buck are a joke. Brian Fullem is a good man (and a good poker player)

Wejo-

Get the surgery. One of my former teammates broke his navicular during a race and had the surgery and came back to run better than he ever had with never so much as a pain again. The navicular is a tricky bone to deal with due to the blood flow problem. Another of my teammates took time off and dealt with the issue for a couple years before finally getting the surgery and getting back to training and making the Olympic Trials in 04. It isn't worth it to wait and see if your foot is going to heal. Get the surgery and know that it will be better and that you won't have to deal with another 15 month period like you have been now.

A former multi-national champion was my roommate for awhile and he got a navicular stress Fx. The surgery is the ONLY way to go. You might be able to cross-train on the bike, in the pool or on a Concept2 rowing machine if you want to give running one more go. Those are viable ways to re-engage your aerobic system and get your body primed to settle back into its 'heavy lifting' zone, aka your rebuilding/base/training modalities.

Good luck.

You guys are making me lean towards surgery now.

I guess one thing factoring in was how realistic was giving running another real serious go (ie Olympics). Don't get me wrong I want to train again and maybe train very seriously but unless I have a shot at the Olympics (basically I'd have to qualify 14 months from now) I don't see any point of rushing anything. I haven't really competed in 3 years so the remoteness of being at that level in a year dampered my desire to do a surgery that possibly could be unnecessary (but you're changing my opinion)

And the last 2 months I have run so little. Most of this time I would still go jog a decent amount but since December I've been running probably less than 20 miles a week. I feel a burn in my lungs just jogging. But the more time I sit out the harder it is to come back.

Although from what some people are saying on here, surgery takes more time to heal (5 months) than the stimulator thing(2 if it works), but its success rate is more certain.

I think that the main reason to get the surgery is that you said you have probably had the fracture for over a year and other posters mentioned that you have had foot problems in the past. From my experience (3+ years running with a tibial stress fracture), when you run on it, the bone will continue trying to heal itself, but can actually be weakened and cause calcium deposits. It is ideal to simply take the recommended 6-8 weeks off and then get right back into running, but that obviously doesn't always happen. If you did the cast/stimulator and the fracture doesn't completely heal, you will risk further damage. Olympics or not, do you see yourself running at all in the future? If so, go with what has the higher success rate (surgery). Even if you have to take five months off, it is much better than dealing with a chronic injury for years or possibly the rest of your life. After taking that time off, you will come back refreshed and strong - physically, mentally, and emotionally.

Testicular stress fracture? Sounds horrifying!!

What's that? NAV-ick-you-lahr? Oh. Bummer, but compared to testicular, it's a piece of cake.

Now let's have a look at your xray.

http://www.letsrun.com/2007/ct2.jpg

Oh geez, I was right the first time! Damn you, wejo, for fooling us into looking at an xray of your equipment. That's a rampant abuse of power.

Moderator, delete the thread!

Get the surgery, the navicular is very prone to non-union due to poor blood flow. Yours most likely is already in that stage and more time will do nothing. I believe the great Frank Shorter's most competitive days ended due to just such a stress fx that took a year to heal. Go to an experienced Doc though.

Listen Wesjo. I never post on letsrun but I believe I have a good advice for you. I had the same injury like you and I did tons of research and talked to many experts about it. My advice is no surgery - it will heal itself but it takes longer than a regular stress fracture. My fracture was pretty bad and it healed after 12 weeks of strict rest and treatment. As you said - there isn't enough blood supply in navicular but I did something to increase blood flow which I think really helped: ice bath-warm whirpool contrast (3mins warm,1min cold). I used to do this as much as few hrs a day. I believe it helped. I also used bone stim but I am not sure how much it helped. DO NOT TO MAKE ANY MOVEMENTS WITH YOUR FOOT. ALSO, DO NOT STEP ON YOUR FOOT even when you are wearing boot (CRUCHES ARE MUST). NEVER TRY TO TEST IT before 12 weeks. It may take less than 12 weeks but I would not take any less just to make sure. You will get fat and unfit but you have to do it. NO CROSS TRAINING, SWIMMING or anything else. REST 100%. This is why some peoples' navicular stress fracture never healed. Mother nature made it possible that everything can heal itself - having screw in your foot just doesn't sound right. When your foot heals itself it will be stronger than ever. Good luck and enjoy your time off - that's all you can do.