If this is global warming ...

Hahahahaha!!! Classic. Gotta love that media. This was just 32 years ago. Unbelievable. I liked that other post in this thread about the newspaper and magazine articles switching every few decades too. And these morons just eat it all up.....

You got to love how every debate in America these days has a one view attributed to "liberal pussies" and one view attributed to "dumb redneck conservatives". No matter that niether view generally has anything to do with either liberal or conservative ideology. Its OK both sides just cry "media brainwashing" or some other nonsense and continue to insult the other sides manhood/intelligence/social class....

The global warming debate is a prime example. There is nothing liberal about acknowledging global warming exists, and there is nothing conservative about denying it exists. I'll spell it out for you:

Liberal = in support of government involvement in ensuring the social welfare being of the populace, usually through central planning, government control of public utilities, progressive taxation, etc...

Conservative = opposed to government involvement in ensuring the social welfare of the populace, prefering instead to rely on market forces, competition, and privatization. Opposed to central planning, opposed to progressive taxation, opposed to government spending

Failing to accept the reality of global warming does not make you a conservative, it makes you ignorant. Not even Exxon Mobile continues to support denials of global climate change. We as a society need to move past this debate. Furthermore, those who consider themselves conservatives need to start working to ensure that there are viable market based solutions available to the problem of climate change to serve as a counterpoint to the existing liberal proposals (which are generally based on heavy regulation of certain industries) for when as a society inevietably have do deal with it.

Dude, best post of this thread (and it HAS been a good one...)

I continue to feel that runners are, on the whole, nerds at heart. Many smart minds frequent this site....

As a libertarian, I fiercely oppose gov't intervention in economics of any kind (but that is my bias....opposers are just as valid)...I'm all for market based solutions (and there will be many coming!)

However, I do believe that this debate should remain open. This is NOT evolution vs creation, or some other pseudo science gimmick....this is a real, scientifically based topic, with few certainties and many unfinished chapters. I welcome critics to my position (that climate change is less man-affected then the consensus would like to believe), and hope that open dialogue makes us wiser as a people. Above all, lets keep name calling to a minimum--it does no real good. We're all ignorant no matter how you slice it--to deny THIS is to truly oppose what science has revealed (reference to evolutionary psych...)

For decades now we have watched and listened to this. Thirty some years ago, as a kid, I watched in horror as ,scientists, geologists, teachers and political candidates showed us the charts on TV. All kinds of Gore type charts and facts! Gas lines were a mile long waits of 4 to 5 hours! We were given a number ticket to get a few gallons of rationed gas. Earth has no more oil! This went on and on...then poof........all over. Just went away no one has said a word about it. I was a kid I didn't understand the part about Republicans using all the earths oil etc. Then it was my city pollution was going to kill us all! More charts and students marching in the streets and blowing things up. Students always seemed to know what was up cause they took classes. We have had so many time lines as to when we were all done...then poof....all gone..not another word. It has never stopped. I predict in 25 years we will look back and say "What ever happened to Global Warming?" Of course, I won't be here, as I should have died 25 years ago...Poof.....!

[quote]cgaites wrote:

Conservative = opposed to government involvement in ensuring the social welfare of the populace, prefering instead to rely on market forces, competition, and privatization. Opposed to central planning, opposed to progressive taxation, opposed to government spending

quote]

This is why conservatives are skeptical of the global warming scare tactics. The alarmists' desired outcome is a global, centralized, "progressive" carbon trading scheme. Look who's one of the first to jump on board...none other than Alexander Putin!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16640651/

If he's embracing carbon trading you can be sure it's a crooked operation and is not in the US best interests.

In 25 years time, we’ll probably have something a lot more scary to worry about, other than global warming.

There are 67 countries in the world right now where 15 to 29 year old make up more than 30% of the population.

And 60 of them are already undergoing some sort of civil war or mass killing!

In 30 years there will be 300 million spare males in China without a female to mate with.

With all that testosterone floating about on the planet in the future and with the inevitable wars, plus nuclear proliferation - surviving the many conflicts worldwide will be our main concern.

cgaites wrote:

You got to love how every debate in America these days has a one view attributed to "liberal pussies" and one view attributed to "dumb redneck conservatives". No matter that niether view generally has anything to do with either liberal or conservative ideology. Its OK both sides just cry "media brainwashing" or some other nonsense and continue to insult the other sides manhood/intelligence/social class....

Yep, this is the way it goes. Instead of debating the actual topic at hand they go and resort to name calling. This is likely because most people don't have the scientific background to actually debate the topic so it gets turned into politics so that everyone can have an opinion.

Wasnt that just the Oil embargo? I dont remember all those talking about running out of oil.

"City pollution" has been reduced greatly over last few decades. Smog does kill people and in some countries such as China it kills many people.

There is no denying that the Earth is getting warmer, and it is affecting some other countries with adverse consequences. Maybe you have not been directly affected, but that doesn't mean it's all b.s. Maybe there are people trying to do something about these environmental problems and are making headway despite the critics.

Thursday, April 21, 2005

George Carlin's "The Planet Is Fine"

We're so self-important. So self-important. Everybody's going to save something now. "Save the trees, save the bees, save the whales, save those snails." And the greatest arrogance of all: save the planet. What? Are these f***ing people kidding me? Save the planet, we don't even know how to take care of ourselves yet. We haven't learned how to care for one another, we're gonna save the f***ing planet?

I'm getting tired of that shit. Tired of that shit. I'm tired of f***ing Earth Day, I'm tired of these self-righteous environmentalists, these white, bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is there aren't enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world save for their Volvos. Besides, environmentalists don't give a shit about the planet. They don't care about the planet. Not in the abstract they don't. Not in the abstract they don't. You know what they're interested in? A clean place to live. Their own habitat. They're worried that some day in the future, they might be personally inconvenienced. Narrow, unenlightened self-interest doesn't impress me.

Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The PEOPLE are f***ed. Difference. Difference. The planet is fine. Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We've been here, what, a hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun?

The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles...hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worlwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages...And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet...the planet...the planet isn't going anywhere. WE ARE!

We're going away. Pack your shit, folks. We're going away. And we won't leave much of a trace, either. Thank God for that. Maybe a little styrofoam. Maybe. A little styrofoam. The planet'll be here and we'll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed-end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet'll shake us off like a bad case of fleas. A surface nuisance.

You wanna know how the planet's doing? Ask those people at Pompeii, who are frozen into position from volcanic ash, how the planet's doing. You wanna know if the planet's all right, ask those people in Mexico City or Armenia or a hundred other places buried under thousands of tons of earthquake rubble, if they feel like a threat to the planet this week. Or how about those people in Kilowaia, Hawaii, who built their homes right next to an active volcano, and then wonder why they have lava in the living room.

The planet will be here for a long, long, LONG time after we're gone, and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, 'cause that's what it does. It's a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed, and if it's true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new pardigm: the earth plus plastic. The earth doesn't share our prejudice towards plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic for itself. Didn't know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric philosophical question, "Why are we here?" Plastic...asshole.

So, the plastic is here, our job is done, we can be phased out now. And I think that's begun. Don't you think that's already started? I think, to be fair, the planet sees us as a mild threat. Something to be dealt with. And the planet can defend itself in an organized, collective way, the way a beehive or an ant colony can. A collective defense mechanism. The planet will think of something. What would you do if you were the planet? How would you defend yourself against this troublesome, pesky species? Let's see... Viruses. Viruses might be good. They seem vulnerable to viruses. And, uh...viruses are tricky, always mutating and forming new strains whenever a vaccine is developed. Perhaps, this first virus could be one that compromises the immune system of these creatures. Perhaps a human immunodeficiency virus, making them vulnerable to all sorts of other diseases and infections that might come along. And maybe it could be spread sexually, making them a little reluctant to engage in the act of reproduction.

Well, that's a poetic note. And it's a start. And I can dream, can't I? See I don't worry about the little things: bees, trees, whales, snails. I think we're part of a greater wisdom than we will ever understand. A higher order. Call it what you want. Know what I call it? The Big Electron. The Big Electron...whoooa. Whoooa. Whoooa. It doesn't punish, it doesn't reward, it doesn't judge at all. It just is. And so are we. For a little while.

cgaites wrote:

Conservative = opposed to government spending

That's funny.

Johnny Weatherman wrote:

Hahahahaha!!! Classic. Gotta love that media. This was just 32 years ago. Unbelievable. I liked that other post in this thread about the newspaper and magazine articles switching every few decades too. And these morons just eat it all up.....

yeah well there is the media...and there is peer reviewed lit...and people like you are carefully picking through sources such "popular science" and what not, to make it look like there might be a debate.

there are people who claim to be scientist who think the universe, and everything in it was created in 7 days...they my find certain media outlets...but it is somewhat unlikly that they will be published in any peer-reviewed science journal.

You Americans are so funny, there is/was no Evolution, there is no climate change, Jesus is comin back next year...do they put LSD in your water?

isnt england were crazy farmers still use sticks to find water wells?

kaitainen wrote:

Medgar Evers Committed Suicide wrote:

Much like "global warming", you believe your truth and I'll believe mine.

do tell, what is this truth of yours? a man fighting for civil rights for african-americans was shot in the back. where is the ambiguity?

You only know what the media reported. He was cheating on his wife and using money donated to the NAACP to buy weapons. Some of that money he gave to his girlfriend. When he found out he'd been discovered, that's when he did the deed in his driveway.

I love the liberal's insistence on the almighty "peer reviewed journal". Who in the hell reads peer reviewed journals? Nobody, except the peers reviewing each other and liberals. I know, I know, every single peer reviewed piece ever written supports manmade global warming caused by George Bush and southern, white, Christian rednecks over the last 6 years. I have a question: Who peer reviewed temperature measurements in 1895? Did a bunch of peers stand around two scientists as they stuck their Sonny Jergensen's in a jar of bear fat to get a temperature reading?

Medgar Evers Committed Suicide wrote:

kaitainen wrote:

do tell, what is this truth of yours? a man fighting for civil rights for african-americans was shot in the back. where is the ambiguity?

You only know what the media reported. He was cheating on his wife and using money donated to the NAACP to buy weapons. Some of that money he gave to his girlfriend. When he found out he'd been discovered, that's when he did the deed in his driveway.

i will concede that i hadn't considered assisted suicide as a possibility.

maybe i'll change my name to "George W. Bush Eats Babies" or "John McCain Loves to Club Baby Seals". who knows? it could be true.

Europeans are certainly not eligible to cast stones as Americans come to grips with this debate. A simple question back to Europeans, who apparently now see the light, where are all your bears, wolves, trees, elk, salmon, etc., etc.,

Europe not only decimated it's own environment, it decimated Africa's and the America's environments as well. So before you guys smugly sit pat on your 'current' eco friendly position remember where you came from...

Five Finger wrote:

I love the liberal's insistence on the almighty "peer reviewed journal". Who in the hell reads peer reviewed journals? Nobody, except the peers reviewing each other and liberals. I know, I know, every single peer reviewed piece ever written supports manmade global warming caused by George Bush and southern, white, Christian rednecks over the last 6 years. I have a question: Who peer reviewed temperature measurements in 1895? Did a bunch of peers stand around two scientists as they stuck their Sonny Jergensen's in a jar of bear fat to get a temperature reading?

Further evidence for my previous post. SCIENTISTS insist on peer reviewed journals. These peers can be conservative, liberal, black, or white. The difference is that these people are educated. The majority of the people arguing poltics in this thread are not... at least, not in any area of legitimate science.

Stupid liberal scientists, spreading their junk, scare-tactic science. 20 years ago they were talking about AIDS, but Magic Johnson didn't die did he? Now they seem to have changed their minds and think something called cancer is killing people. Soon that won't be a problem either. Gosh I hate scientists and how wishy-washy they are.