Apparently no American man age 35-39 had broken 4:27 before last year. How can this be right? Mary Slaney ran 4:26 at Millrose at this age, but she isn't listed either.
Millrose 1500-went to mile in '82
Mary Decker-1980 WR 4:00.8
Mary Slaney-1997 4:26.67 was the most recent of her 5 Millrose wins.
Nobody bothered to fill out the paperwork.
Also, the M40 record is listed as 4:11, but our own Tony Young (NW Master) has run 4:05 on an "oversized" 307m track.
yeah man, age-group records are a joke. But what's worse is that there are guys and gals out there who will go around saying "i just missed my age group record or ran the xth fastest time for my age group ever" knowing full well that the record keeping is a joke and that tons of people have actually run faster in their age group than they have. but they don't care...... just like people like to tell others " I won a national championship last year" without adding that it was like jr community college d5 , or was an age group national meet where no one good showed up, or a "team nationals" where no quality teams showed. I mean, sure, it might be techincally true, but it is incredibly misleading and they know it. I would never spew such nonsense. My team won a "national championship" before...... at team nationals, but that meet, while it has gotten a bit better, started off as a total joke. I don't think I ever told anyone, or if I did, I explained what it actually meant, with a big smile.
Some people have no integrity, and yeah, it's a pet peeve. I ran a 4:30 mile at age 35, and if I had had the balls to try and tell people that it was just a tad slower than the best ever done in this country for my age group, i should be shot. It's a decent time for that age, but really nothing special at all. Not even close to being special.
Apparently I was the American record holder then, since I did it twice in the same two mile last week. I am so pumped. Please send me your letters of congrats and a cookie.
Eric Green is the new "record holder". He runs for the Front Line Racing Team. The manager of that club, Fred VanHala, is a really nice guy and has done good things for the sport in Michigan. However, it's totally wrong for him to be promoting Eric Green as the American record holder. 4:26 was slower than for Steve Scott's 5K splits at that age.
These records are inline with race walking records, and loudest whisper.
Go to this website for more accurate lists of best masters times (from age 40 up):
http://www.mastersathletics.net
Masters records seem to get more accurate in the older age groups (in track), as the athletes who remain in the game tend to be more OCD than their younger compatriots. ;-)
There are still American "records" that aren't acknowledged - notably Steve Plascentia's 14:02.86 5K and Tony Young's 3:46.43 1500 in the M40-44 division - but overall they're pretty good.
Age 35-39 just recently became an official "masters" division, so don't expect those records to reflect anything close to reality in the near-future. Top 35-year-olds are still capable of competing internationally as open runners, and most have no interest (understandably) in being classified as masters runners ... yet!
Finally, while there are some masters runners who strut and boast about their "records" and "championships," most of us just love the opportunity to keep competing. We know the real game is with the top Open runners, but that doesn't mean we don't like to get in a good race ourselves. I mean, c'mon, we all invent carrots to chase in this sport - whether it's a high school conference crown, a D3 Title, or the designation of Fastest 95-Year-Old-Man On The Planet.
It's all good. And if you're not making a living at it, it's all just for fun.
indoor and outdoor difference?
maybe Slaneys record is just indoor. But I havent read this whole thread, so I could be wrong.
age grouper wrote:
yeah man, age-group records are a joke..
If you want a REALLY good laugh, how about checking out the women's T&F records- FloJo, the Eastern BlocJocks and the Chinese turtle-soupers make a mockery of the sport.
The only records that I am absolutely are clean and legit are the ones I ran against myself- keep running PRs until you are the fastest ever, then let the pundits sort it out, I say.
Hey, I can run that if I tried and I'm 36 right now.
That's motivation to train.
But maybe not if I also have to fill out paper work.
michigander wrote:
Eric Green is the new "record holder". He runs for the Front Line Racing Team. The manager of that club, Fred VanHala, is a really nice guy and has done good things for the sport in Michigan. However, it's totally wrong for him to be promoting Eric Green as the American record holder. 4:26 was slower than for Steve Scott's 5K splits at that age.
They're at it again. Green ran 9:20 for 3000 over the weekend and they're submitting it as the new 3k record.
Wow - sounds like Eric & I have done something pretty sinister! Gee, don't tell my friends and family! (I should probably lay low for a while.)
A year or so ago when the USATF started posting age group records for 35-39 year olds; Eric noted that the record for males for the mile was 4:36 something. Eric's been consistently running in the 4:20's all through his 30's. So, he ran a solid time. Submitted it for the record. It was ratified. End of story.
Is it truly the fastest indoor mile ever run by a US male age 35-39? No.
Is it the fastest that's been ratified by the USATF? Yes.
Do I like to say positive things about runners who run for the team? Darn right I do. Especially runners that have been as loyal and dedicated as Eric has been over the years. Year in and year out he does a great job for the team running everything from 4 x 400 relays to The Great Lakes Relay. He's given up many individual titles for the sake of representing the team.
Does saying something positive about someone hurt anyone? Gee, I guess it does.
Is Eric Green the USATF record holder for the indoor mile for men 35-39? Sure is. (Just as the guy who had it previously at 4:36). Can someone running today beat that record? Only if they run it, then go through the aggravation of filling out the paperwork. If you don't want to go through the paperwork - not our problem.
If you are 35-39 and think you can beat Eric, he'll probably be at the Indoor Masters meet in Boston in March. He's thinking about running the 3000, mile, and 800. Beat Eric, and you are one heck of a 35-39 track runner! He's a super competitor and a great guy!
(Am I allowed to come out of hiding now?!)
Fred Vanhala
It gets even more ridiculous: state age records. I once held the record for 30 year old males...in the state of Alabama...for the mile. A tough cross section of America to dominate to be sure!!! Sadly my record has been surpassed :( It was 4:54.
Look, we see your points, and they are valid. No, you didn't do anything "sinister", BUT......
some of us are just saying: it would be dumb for Eric (IF he did....not saying he does) if he went around telling people he is the fastest ever in the US for his age group for his event.....because he isn't, and he knows it. Again, I am not saying he says that, only saying: IF he did (and we all know people who would), he is lying and living a lie, plain and simple. What I said is true.....do you think I am being unfair somehow?? In fact Toro's response is proof positive that people like to kid themselves about these types of records. He said that having the chance to be able to set that "record" is motivation! Why would be motivated to set a BS record?? So he can BS people and himself?? Be motivated to run FAST, period! (or to set a real record).
Oh, and by the way, the indoor master's meet you are promoting may have gotten better, I am not sure, but it started out at least as a joke! And the 35-39 class was the biggest joke, because anyone good in that age group was trying to make REAL nationals, not an age-group handicapped one. So....if someone won a "national title" in the 35-39, and went around saying "I am national champion" for my age group, it wouldn't be a lie, but it would VERY misleading. People like me have a pet peeve concerning situations like that. That's all. I just know too many people who will do anything to win a fake "national title" or BS national record. No should hold it against the guy for running the time, it's a pretty good time. But a REAL age-group national record??? Hardly. As one guy pointed out on this thread, there have been 35 year olds that can run several 4:26's in a row.
By the way, what's the REAL record anyway? Did Steve Scott or someone else run under 4:00 when they were 35? Probably. And 4:26 is a FAR cry from that.
I can tell you he is saying that as I've heard him. He is fast and no I could not beat him.
I'm fairly certain he does know that while holding the "record" that other people can beat it.
My question to the coach is why is his 3000 time so slow relative to his mile time. I'm about a 5 flat miler and can run 9:40 easy in the 3000. He should have a lower time in the 3000.
I was a "National Champion" in 2002.
age grouper wrote:
By the way, what's the REAL record anyway? Did Steve Scott or someone else run under 4:00 when they were 35? Probably. And 4:26 is a FAR cry from that.
Steve Scott holds the real American record. On July 1, 1991 he ran a 3:54.13 at the BNP in Villeneuve d'Ascq, France, aged 35. I don't know if that is a world record but it must be the American one.
Just as Eric saw a record that he could beat; there are a few people now seeing that record and saying, "I can beat that!"
Someone had to submit the 4:36 record to get someone to submit a 4:26 to eventually get someone to submit a 4:16 and then a 4:06. It is not a bad thing. It is not a good thing. It is just the process of how things happen.
If nobody submits a record time because they are above such things, or because they don't think the record is worthy of being a record; the whole sport suffers. People have to have a little vision to see that.
Same with the 35-39 indoor masters track championship. Let's be honest; what miniscule fraction of runners beyond 34 are going to make it to the Open Indoor meet? And, if they can, great! They can run it.
Some exceptional athletes are still competing after 34; but not quite where they were previously. Competition for 35-39 year olds is not a bad thing. It bridges the gap to age 40 and gives some competition at a time where a lot of athletes might otherwise drop out. Again, it is a vision thing. This sport has too few people with vision.
And, is the first year out of the blocks for a competition going to be the greatest? Probably not. But everything has to start somewhere. The competition in the 35-39 bracket at the indoor USATF meet is probably still not where it will be five years from now - but it's probably improving a bit year by year. The first year was only a joke to people who don't understand the growing process.
Visualize what something could be and help to get it there.
Fred Vanhala
I'm sure Eric knows that he isn't the fastest guy ever in that age group. Runners, especially when they are competing at higher levels, are not exactly stupid. They tend to have a good head for the history of the sport. It is well with the rights of the Front Line coach to promote his team. Those guys work hard and run well. You can complain that there is a difference between what the records are and what they should be; that would be completely valid. But you can't blame Eric or Front Line for that. Of course, it is the typical letsrun thing to sit namelessly at your computer and slander others. So I understand.